EU Court of Human Rights

PS Robert I have just been on the EU Parliament website and see that you want your Petition to be put in the form of a Complaint rather than a Request. Can you explain why you decided on this? Thanks

Rosemary:

The complaint as it is written now states that its essence is the violation of children's human rights in Portugal by being kidnapped for reasons believed to be associated with peadophilia. The complaint seeks to clarify and prove this through an investigation the plantiff(s) will request the court to order. The plaintiff(s) will use as evidence the history of abductions including those outlined in the section of this forum known as "the strange geographical positions of child abduction in Portugal" presented by "Sadie," in addition to the most recent ones related to Joanna Cipriano, Madeleine MCann and others. My suggestion is that the complaint be read with caution before making any abrupt statements, and draw from it inspiration and/or ideas to be debated in order to make it better. Always keep in mind that the central issue of the complaint will be the human right of children not to be kidnapped for reasons suspected to be associated with peadophilia while in Portuguese territory. This is the challenge worth trying and while the judicial process develops, an Internet campaign to reach the world would be conducted to gain support. If it is done with intelligence rather than with emotion and outbursts of abrupt reactions, we can reach our goal of exposing the truth about Portugal and the danger it represents to children.

Robert Argiz [rargiz@gmail.com]

Excellent Robert Thankyou. Time for us all now I think to reread the Complaint and refine it, if needs be, with suggestions.

Yes, I agree, the central issue here is the human right of children.

Robert on the EU Parliament website I could not find out if the Petition needs to have a minimum number of signatories in order for it to be accepted. Do you have the answer?

I think we may be on to something here. As Robert says, we need to work this through first, refine it, suggest a few ideas and so on, but the end result could be worth the effort.

vee8 wrote:I think we may be on to something here. As Robert says, we need to work this through first, refine it, suggest a few ideas and so on, but the end result could be worth the effort.

I couldn't agree more.

Rosemary:

I am responding to your question related to the number of signatures [Plaintiff(s)] the Complaint must have so that the Court may or may not accept it. The Complaint can have one or more signatures i.e., Plaintiff(s) presenting it to the Court for consideration. I don't know about Europe but in the United States one or more persons can file a Complaint by using what is known as "class action" suit against a Defendant [the accused] meaning that you can file a Complaint on behalf of many others. This will have to be consulted with a Lawyer on this type of legal action against a State. Always keep in mind that the suit will be against the Government of Portugal by one or more individuals, on behalf of children whose human rights have been and are being violated by the State. This should be the very essence of our complaint. For example, the Complaint could be filed like this:

Robert Argiz, et al.

vs.

The State of Portugal

Do you get the point? Here Robert Argiz is the Plaintiff acting on behalf of others, that is, "et.al" which means "and others." Again, this can be a rather complex matter and must be scrutinized by a legal expert. Do not attempt to file a Complaint without considering these and many other aspects of it.

If you or any other member(s) of the forum have a question(s) by all means publish them here or send them to: rargiz@gmail.com

PS: In unity we the people will NEVER be defeated!!

"In unity we the people will never be defeated = unity is strenght".

Thankyou Robert. A lot to read and think about.

Pedro:

At last we have finally met our minds!! You have said it already but I love it so much I must repeat it: UNITY IS STRENGHT!! Not only it is strenght but it is also POWER! When common people are truly UNITED nature follows and creates objective conditions that bring into play certain elements that make it real. I have no doubts about this on the basis of my own experience with organizations in Latin America.

The people united will never be defeated!

Yes my friend Robert, I agree with your post.

Thread as requested

Chris or Rosie can we bring over Robert´s postings and his Complaint.? On page 2 of "Is Madeleine´s abduction linked to Casa Pai" thread I think.
Thankyou

Robert we have a special thread for you. EU Court of Human Rights. I have asked for your complaint to be brought over to it.

On the main board Rosie please. I agree with you.

Robert I have another question. I am deeply concerned about Article 21 in the Lisbon Treaty re Paedophilia. Paedophilia appears NOT to be included now in the new Treaty as a criminal/illegal sexual perversion. How would this fact affect the Complaint? I understand it would have no bearing on corruption but the act itself, the assault upon children as I see it, what of that?

I have not read the Lisbon Treaty or Article 21 so I can not respond to your question. In any case, however, the best would be to consult a professional legal advisor on this and other questions regarding the Complaint. I don't think that it is as easy as it may seem so it is best to act with caution. What I am sure of, however, is that it would be worth the time and effort invested but it must be done right or it won't work and our time would be wasted. As of now I am hoping someone would take interest and make contact so that we can start an open discussion on the subject. Another aspect of this matter that I think would be ideal is to explore the possibility that Gerry and Kate McCann become involved, but I have a gut feeling they won't... or maybe I could be wrong...

I suggest to all those interested in matters related to the Complaint against the State of Portugal for violating the human rights of children, to consider the creation of an account at www.thepetitionsite.com for the purpose of asking the international community to support the initiative.

United we can!

I have also been thinking along these lines, of starting an online Petition. With the one that Robert suggests I notice it is based in the US. Is there an equivalent that is closer to home.i.e. europe? Not the UK as that looks like it will be a waste of time.
Also what do people feel about Facebook? I know they have a huge appeal. And they run various Petitions. Anyone know about Facebook?

http://www.cbc.ca/spark/2009/04/can-online-petitions-and-facebook-groups-actually-change-anything/

I found this very interesting! I too feel they have more impact on raising awareness than perhaps changing the staus. Read the comments.

PS I am not saying BTW that raising awareness is not very valuable!

As far as I know the folks at petitionsite have a direct link with facebook of which you are notified when an account is established with them.

In addition to the above, my search for information on this subject has produced knowledge I didn't have before. I found out that there is also the European Court of Justice at http://curia.europa.eu which also deal with human rights issues. And there is the European Convention on Human Rights that clearly announces its position on the protection of human rights like this: [...] "Any person(s) who feel his or her human rights have been violated under the Convention by a State party can take a case to the Court." It also states that: [...] "The establishment of the Court to protect individuals from human rights violations is an innovative feature for an international convention on human rights, as it gives the individual an active role on the international arena."

The above satements make it clear that we are on the right path. It is only a matter of organizing it to a point where there aren't any loop holes that can be used against us on the decision process to grant the requested investigation. If the request is granted by the Court, then the biggest part of the task would be getting support from the international community, and it is here when Facebook and other similar Internet resorces would be very important to use.

Unity is the key!

There is a discussion over on PFA at the moment about this new Lisbon Treaty and Paedophilia. As I understand it (that is questionable right now!) BluJ says that the CONDITION of Paedophilia is not illegal. Only the ACT itself is now illegal. I have asked how one can be assessed a paedophile if one does not commit the act? Smoke and mirrors to me.....

I have to ask: how can the Condition says that paedophilia is not illegal, only the act itself is now illegal? For me the act itself / paedophilia is the same. I really don´t understand the difference between paedophilia / act itself.