Madeleine Hunt Targets New Murder Suspect

Hi Rosie

having major computer probs at the moment. Distant thunderstorms I think. maybe cut off any second. Will send this then try again

Which door are you talking about being open Rosie; the front door or the patio door?

Because amaral, himself said that no-one would go in through the patio door as it was only 50 metres away from where Kate and gerry were sitting. He said this in his statement when he said he could prove that Madeleine died inside the appartment.

And how many different people were seen watching the appartment? - just spotty face or were there others?

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AlexG wrote:

sadie wrote:Which door are you talking about being open Rosie; the front door or the patio door?

Because amaral, himself said that no-one would go in through the patio door as it was only 50 metres away from where Kate and gerry were sitting. He said this in his statement when he said he could prove that Madeleine died inside the appartment.

What would really help would be to go there, get permission of the Ocean Club and try to open the same door by myself without keys.
That way i could see for myself if it was possible or not to open it without damaging the lock ....
If we are to believe Amaral, then the lock couldn't be oppened without a copy of the key, and that means that someone of the OC must be involved.

Alex, i would love for a crowd of us to go there and all look individually and collectively. For your info the couple in the appartment before the Mccanns said in their official statement that they were upset because the locked door kept opening and in walked the maid/cleaner. To prevent her entrance, they locked the door and left the key in the lock. She still walked straight in!

Also one of our Portuguese posters has the same type of high security lock and she has found that there is a method to get in without a key. Understandibly she didn't want to elaborate. There were a number of burglaries in the appartments, through locked doors, as well. Wonder if our friend Ray Hewlett knew this entry method; whether he had been in a few places using it? Hmm. He claimed he knew the place well and did he say he had been in 5A?

Only a thought, my thoughts are sometimes over-imaginative, but not always! .............would be a good source of items to sell at car boot sales. Oh, that is naughty sadie!! Sorry Ray, but it just popped into my head. Only thinking out loud and almost certainly incorrect. But where the hell did he get enough stuff to take to car boot sales? You need a hell of a lot of stuff for it to be worthwhile. I only made £30 at my last one and quite frankly it wasn't worth the effort.

Right, if nobody is going to Morocco; how about the Algarve?

sadie i would love to go there,if i had the cash i would be there like a shot.....
I have a small child though and although i want madeleine found etc and would do anything, i would have to draw the line where my little one is concerned ......... I couldn't leave her to go out there.
If however i thought i could find Madeleine or help in anyway i would.But i couldn't leave my daughter to go out on a whim....and i wouldn't take her with me in a million years.Shes far to precious.

If i was single (no kids etc) i would go for sure...i would meet ya all and shoot off and spend a couple weeks out there traveling about and searching etc.

Someone on the 3a site is going there on a holiday with his kids...how sad is that.They are actually staying at the ocean club to.he reckons his wife found a deal on the of chance pmsl..more like they had no choice and they are all forced to holiday in the doomed place by their deluded father

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Alex

Personally I think it most likely that the abductor had a key to the front door. There have been too many breakins around the Ocean Club and if reports are correct, no sign of forced entry. Also, keys are available to maintenance staff and cleaners. And although in most places the staff are required to sign them out and back in, who knows if this procedure is followed. Additionally, a copy of a key could be made. And lastly, there should be masterkeys (the ones signed in and out) and if a set goes missing, all locks should be changed, and it is not supposed to be possible to copy the master keys, but criminals are very good at things like this.

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*It was nearer 100 yards not fifty.
*The view was partly obscured by shrubs
*The patio doors were unlocked, the McCanns have said this and *I think this is in the files.
*The front door does have a security lock
*The key is a copy.
*The key is a security key, a locksmith has verified this for the NOTW

When people mention the locked door, I think they mean the front one.
I would not believe Amaral, he would probably lie about the date.
Although I do not know for certain if the front door was security locked or not.t is possible that the abductor could have been given a key from an employee of MW.

It still worries me that there has been no response to the offer of the reward of £1.5m. Even if someone was scared of the police or AN other surely some information would have come to light during those first few weeks. The only reason I can think of is that she was taken for some very rich and influential person, therefore money would hold no importance. The other senario, which I don't even want to contemplate, is that because of all the publicity, the abductor got scared and did the unthinkable. A thorough search should have been made of a five mile radius around Praia da Luz. Areas should have been cordoned off, and searched bit by bit. But of course with Ameral in charge all he was concerned about was where his next meal was coming from, and perhaps the payout that he was going to get for turning a blind eye!! (if it was my first senario). I have thought for a long time that the answer lies in Praia da Luz but, if there were numerous people involved someone would have come forward by now, even if it was anonymously. I really don't like what I am saying right now, but I think the odds are stacked against finding her at all, I hope to God that I am wrong because there will be an awful lot of caring people, including me, who are dreading this outcome. What is also worrying is the fact that Brian Kennedy has withdrawn his funding and the McCanns are supposedly running out of money. These detectives can't operate on fresh air, they really do need funds, and quickly. I'm sorry to sound so gloomy, but unless there is a great deal happening behind the scenes, I am gradually beginning to feel that we are fighting a losing battle. But despite saying all this, I will never give up on Madeleine, and I will do everything in my power to bring her home. As Rosie says, I still have a very strong feeling that she is still alive.

Jean, sorry on my way to bed so will reply properly tomorrow, just wanted to say that Brian Kennedy has not withdrawn his funding.
All he is not paying for anymore is Clarence Mitchell as they no longer need a full time spokesman.
Brian Kennedy still provides the offices the detectives work out of.
That story that appeared in the paper, was just to fill column inches I think.

I think there is very much happening behind the scenes, the Hewlett aspect is running and running and I am interested in what German forensics turn up in the blue Dodge.

Hi Rosie

This isn't Amarals assertion that the tapas is 50 metres from the appartment but the joint PJ directors (whose name is difficult to spell). I cant find amarals statement so this will have to do:

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/AMARAL_DOC_13_04_09.htm

Guilhermino Encarnação
Joint PJ Director

07.08 – Until we have evidence that in fact the worst may have happened to her, we continue to think that she may be – that she may be alive. As you know, under the Portuguese juridical order, it is not only abduction that gives a ransom. If someone takes a person for a sexual act, that is also an abduction. It is on that basis that we are hopeful.

07.30 – The child’s parents, Gerald McCann, aged 39, Kate Healy, 39; the couple David Payne, 41, Fiona Payne, 35, and her mother, Dianne Webster, 63; the couple Matthew Oldfield, 38, Rachel Mampilly, 37; and the couple Russell O’Brien, 37, Jane Tanner, 36, are questioned for the first time by the Polícia Judiciária.

07.57 – During the first week, we interviewed hundreds of persons. The family, the friends, the resort’s employees, and all the persons who had contact with the child. From this first batch of testimonies, we obtained an outline of what happened that night.

08.12 – It was on the back of one of Madeleine’s books that, on the night of the crime, family and friends wrote down the collective versions of that same night; the draft was used to match the depositions from the nine British friends about what happened. According to that version, which will later be confirmed during questioning, at 8.45 p.m. the McCanns enter the restaurant, and then the other couples arrive. Dinner evolves normally. Given the fact that the children are alone in the apartments, the families take turns in checking the children.

08.45 – At around 9.05 p.m., Matt checks the windows of the various apartments, and finds everything quiet and the windows closed. Between 9.05 and 9.10 p.m., Gerald McCann goes to the apartment, asserts that he entered through the front door, and enters the children’s bedroom. Everything seems well to him. At a later point in time, Gerald will say that he sensed that a stranger was inside the room.

09.10 – When he leaves, he meets English tv producer Jeremiah, who walks his child to fall asleep. He remains talking to him under the apartment’s living room window. At around 9.10 p.m., Jane Tanner goes to check her children, and to check the other apartments. On her way to 5D, she passes Gerald and Jeremiah. Jane will later tell the authorities that she saw a stranger carrying a child in his arms, on Agostinho da Silva Street.

09.39 - At 9.30, Russell and Matt check all the apartments. Matt looks through the door of the McCann children’s bedroom. From that standpoint, he can only see the twins. Russell remains to take care of his sick daughter. At 9.50 p.m., Russell returns to the Tapas.

09.58 - On the same night, on the other side of Aldeia da Luz, the Smith family – four adults and five children – have just paid for their dinner at the Dolphins restaurant. The credit card receipt was clocked at 9.27 p.m. on the 3rd of May 2007. The Smiths go out for a drink at Kelly’s bar. They don’t take long.



A Verdade da Mentira - Maddie McCann (Parte 2 de 5)
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10.18 – It’s around 9.50 p.m. when they start walking towards the Estrela da Luz resort. When they cross 25 de Abril Street, arriving at Escola Primária Street, they have just walked 30 metres and they cross paths with a man who carries a child in his arms.

10.38 – It is just after 22 p.m. when Kate goes to her children’s bedroom using the shorter route, entering the apartment through the sliding window, and sees Madeleine is missing. She asserts that the bedroom’s window and shutters had been opened. She drops everything, leaves the twins, who continue sleeping, in a room with an open window, and heads for the Tapas bar, to raise the alarm.

11.04 – This is where part of Kate McCann’s behaviour on that night becomes incomprehensible. Instead of stopping right here, and shouting out to the people who were at the restaurant, where her husband was, what she does is climb down these stairs, and walk a distance that is certainly twice as much as the distance from here to the restaurant, which is located approximately 50 metres from here, as the crow flies.

Rosiepops wrote:Jean, sorry on my way to bed so will reply properly tomorrow, just wanted to say that Brian Kennedy has not withdrawn his funding.
All he is not paying for anymore is Clarence Mitchell as they no longer need a full time spokesman.
Brian Kennedy still provides the offices the detectives work out of.
That story that appeared in the paper, was just to fill column inches I think.

I think there is very much happening behind the scenes, the Hewlett aspect is running and running and I am interested in what German forensics turn up in the blue Dodge.

So glad the funding carries on. That will worry some PdL people, i would like to bet.

Well done Brian Kennedy.

Alroy, you have it in one there, the PJ are NOT at all interested in finding Madeleine, they do not have to be, I suspect that some of them actually know what happened to her and where she is today!

With regard to the reward money, I think that we have to put ourselves in the place of the ordinary Portuguese citizen, did they see anything? Assume a couple of them did, then in the early days they have already reported what they know to the PJ, and it has been binned, or totally ignored (we know for certain happened in many cases) then they think that what they know or saw is of no use because they have already reported it. Since then they have been bombarded almost daily with Amaral's protestations, leaks, lies, slurs and innuendos that Madeleine has died and that somehow her parents were complicit in this, so they do not bother to report it, in fact they are angry because they see the McCanns as totally responsible for the decline in the tourist industry in that area! We know this is not true, but then we haven't be subject to the kind of brainwashing and subliminal suggestions that the Portuguese have been for almost two years!

Then there is another more frightening and more sinister aspect, they may know something, but as we know Portugal is still very much a police state and if they come forward, then the chances are that they and their family may suffer from *unexplained* accidents, or may be framed and arrested and sent to jail on trumped up charges (look at Leonor Cipriano). For all our moaning and complaining over here, we are not governed by our police and we have the freedom to speak up and out. The Portuguese do not, they are not as far down this road as we are and this is not their fault, this is just the way it is, they are terrified of their police!

Thirdly, if you were involved, no matter how minor, in the most famous abduction in the world, would you admit it? Knowing that you would be looking at more than just a short term prison sentence, (probably life). You would NOT only have the police and law to face, if you grassed, you would then become prey to the *paymasters* and you and your family would be in mortal danger. Quite simply, you mess with those people and they will kill you to stop you talking and I think that maybe Hewlett did NOT want to abduct Madeleine, maybe he was *forced* to?

Someone in the police and who runs this ring knew f Hewlett's background (and some of the others) knew things about them which would make them social pariahs and maybe even get them deported, use this a huge cosh with which to beat them over the head with and force them to do their bidding?

Hewlett was NOT on the UK's sex offenders register, Portugal doesn't have one, so how did the PJ know of him and where to find him?

Hewlett himself said to the PJ, that they knew of him and where he was!

This is why I think no one has come forward to claim the reward money, fear of one's life and fear for the lives of your children etc, would you risk it? I wouldn't, not for millions and millions and even if you could remain anonymous, you would know the information you would impart, would be traced straight back to you.

If anyone in the UK had seen anything then it may have been different and people from the UK and other countries are coming forward even now. But the night Madeleine was taken, it was dark and no one was around save for Gerry, Jes and Jane Tanner and the abductor and then the spattering of people like the Carpenters (who only heard something) and the Smiths.

Sadie,

Martin Brunt from Sky News actually walked and measured the distance from the tapas bar, it was as follows;

*Distance just under 100 yards
*Approximately 89 Steps
*taking just under one minute in time to walk.

Perhaps you missed this programme? We saw him actually walking it, measuring it etc.
Up until then, I was under the impression that it was 50 yards, I think the confusion first came about because we in the UK have a habit of talking in yards and the Continentals talk in meters.

Well, as far as I know, Leicester police gave to PJ a list of paedophiles at Algarve, at the early stages of the investigation.

Rosiepops wrote:Sadie,

Martin Brunt from Sky News actually walked and measured the distance from the tapas bar, it was as follows;

*Distance just under 100 yards
*Approximately 89 Steps
*taking just under one minute in time to walk.

Perhaps you missed this programme? We saw him actually walking it, measuring it etc.
Up until then, I was under the impression that it was 50 yards, I think the confusion first came about because we in the UK have a habit of talking in yards and the Continentals talk in meters.

hi Rosie

Yes i did see it.

But we are talking different things. I am talking as the crow flies and you are talking a round-about walk.

Your (martin blunt) measurement is important for how long it took for the tapas parents to visit their apartments

The crow flies measurement is important for how close they were to keep an eye on the patio doors and the apartments.

I can see no reason why the PJ should back the parents on this one, but they are backing Gerrys original, if I remember correctly, that it was only 50 metres.

When my kids were little we used to have a 50 metre garden backing on to a golf course. We often would chat over the fence to golfers with absolutely no fear for our kids safety, and the side door and gate were open and we were in a fairly busy city environment.

OK we were in our own home and i doubt that we would have done the same in a holiday hotel - but 50 metres is not far. Try measuring it. We could have kept a close eye on things at that distance, but horror of horrors, we had our backs to the house most of the time.

We also had a caravan and we would sometimes visit friends caravans for an evening drink and chat; we always sat where we could see the caravan, but I guess sometimes we were 25 - 50 metres away .......AND it was pitch dark.

Even if people do not admit it since the Madeleine abduction, I would like to bet that most people of my generation anyway, have allowed their kids to play on the street or in the front garden, to nip to the local shop or have left them 'safely' in a tent or caravan to spend time nearby with friends.

I take Alroys point about they were probably chatting, but there were 9 of them chatting away and glancing across and according to Gerry and the PJ only 50 metres away. Not many abductors who had watched the pattern would have wanted to go in or out through those patio doors IMO

I am almost certain that entry and exit was through the front door - locked though it might have been. But I could be wrong. None of us know for sure.

Alroy, you were saying that the mcCanns wouldn't be able to see because of their sitting in light and the appartments being in the dark. There was a good light in the porchway that well illuminated the patio entrance; you can see it in lots of the early photos. Anyone brazen/foolish enough to have tried the patio entrance would have to have kept ducked below the balcony wall and kept a low profile as he mounted the steps, because he would have stood out like a sore thumb against the white walls otherwise with that fairly bright illumination.

Nah, sorry, the more I think about it the more convinced I become. Entrance and exit was via the front door.

Now, go on - all of you leap on me and prove me wrong

Hi Pedro

The British police may have given a list, but Hewlett would not have appeared on it and how did the PJ know who was actually in Portugal and where they were?

It is a real mystery.

Rosiepops wrote:Hi Pedro

The British police may have given a list, but Hewlett would not have appeared on it and how did the PJ know who was actually in Portugal and where they were?

It is a real mystery.

Makes you wonder, if these paedos had been 'performing' on the Algarve, but, had been allowed off any charges in exchange for something else? - or possibly because they were doing favours for some Elites/ the PJ/judiciary/government?

Only my thoughts and I am not thinking these very deeply, but they have found a little spot in my mind -just in case anything else should appear out of the woodwork!

Deleted

Double posted

View of apartment from tapas, how would you see someone going in and out of the apartment? It was in dark, so vision is diminished, especially from this distance. There is also significant shrubbery blocking vision.

I do not know how they got into the apartment, if they were given a key, then they may well have gone in through the front door. I don't actually think this changes anything very much at all.
If I were a burglar or an abductor, I would choose the easiest way in, (through the unlocked patio doors), if I was going to go out through the front door, I would check that, then I would go into the bedroom and open the window in case I needed to make a quick get away if someone came back.

Only my thoughts, none of us know, it is all guesswork. One thing I do know is, that, that apartment was not that visible and to see someone go in while your attention was otherwise diverted would be difficult, even looking straight across, we have to acknowledge this, because it is true.

Personally, I think there were two of them and someone from inside the restaurant would tip off if anyone left ad was making their way over.

I believe that the window is highly important in this because it is part of the jigsaw and in order to get a clear picture of what happened, the puzzle has to be completed and the picture seen.

If I was pushed, I would say the window was opened for two reasons, one for the quick getaway and two because I think it is highly unlikely that an abductor would want to walk back through the apartment carrying Madeleine to the front door, if someone came back unexpectedly, then it would make getting away difficult, just dropping her and running would take time and he would be seen. So this is why I have come to the conclusion that the window is highly important, it gives an insight into the abductors frame of mind and MO.

1) Window - used for emergency escape.
2) Passing Madeleine through to an accomplice

I don't think that he would have struggled out of the window on his own, if he had, I believe his DNA would have been all over it, even if he was wearing gloves. BUT we only have the dubious PJ's word for it , that the abductors DNA wasn't on the window. Sorry, I have trouble believing anything they say or do!

Every time I try and think about this, I always try and keep things as simple as possible because, I think this is the most likely way it would have been planned, keeping it simple.

I also think that abducting her from the apartment when they knew they had a free hand, for a short space of time, was preferable to trying to abduct a child when their parents were around.

This is a picture of where they were sitting in the tapas bar, you can just see the faintly ringed apartment, don't forget on that night, the apartment was not lit, it was in darkness.