Madeleine Hunt Targets New Murder Suspect

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I agree. And with so many people coming and going that evening he/she was certainly taking an enormous risk. Which to me smacks of a mighty big payoff from some source or other.

Oh and I do think he came prepared with a spray anaesthetic of some kind or other.

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I don't think it is very easy to buy a child, are you saying because someone is poor they don't care about their child being sexually exploited? That is a very general statement and not one I agree with. Of course there may be the odd cases where someone is persuaded that their child may have a better life, like in the Joana Cipriano case (apparently), but that woman was both poor and uneducated and her whole family set up was unusual and she was totally controlled by the men in her life, I don't see that this set of circumstances would be the norm in Portugal or anywhere else in Europe.
And even in Portugal you just cannot go to a children's home and buy or take a child. Although there has been proof that the abuse is continuing on Casa Pia and that is still going through the Portuguese courts.

How many blonde blue eyed children would be wandering around on their own in Portugal?

Carolina Santos parents think their child was targeted because she is blonde and blue eyed and this is not that common in Portugal. (Those words are their words not mine).
Carolina Santos was taken from her garden outside her parents cafe on Christmas day 2006, her parents were inside. The father came out to see where she was and saw her being led away by a Moroccan looking man, he shouted and his daughter came back to him.
The parents said that it was strange because Carolina is usually shy and quiet and would not go with anyone, yet she went with this man who told her he was taking her to play with another little girl and she went!

• Carolina was three at the time (Roughly same age as Madeleine!)
  
• It was Christmas 2006
  
• Carolina resembled Madeleine
  
• Carolina has long blonde hair and blue eyes
  
• It was barely 5 months before Madeleine was abducted
  
• It is just half an hour away from where Madeleine was abducted from.
  
• Joana Cipriano also disappeared from the same area.
  

It was reported to the police, but they said that no crime had been committed, so they could not do anything about it.

If the parents had not discovered what was happening, no doubt this would be another abduction.

So if all these children are simply on the streets and an easy target for abductors, why did an abductor choose Carolina in broad daylight, when she was so near her parents?

How many times are cases like this going to be overlooked and not given any significance?

The chances are the abduction of Madeleine McCann and the attempted abduction of Carolina are highly likely to be connected as both these cases are highly like to be connected to the disappearance of Joana Cipriano.

I think it is time that people stopped trying to think up excuses of why these cases cannot be connected and started concentrated their minds on them actually being connected. There are far too many coincidences in Portugal on the Algarve, there were far too many known paedophiles, who were 'known' to be in that area at that time.
There are far too many people with ready made excuses and every time I read more about Hewlett, it is just another reason to say that this man has to be formerly questioned and then if necessary rule him out.

Someone wanted a child that looked like Madeleine, for whatever reason, it could well be to replace a child who had maybe died and this is why they wanted a child of that age. I hope this is the case with all my heart, but the other possibilities have to be considered.
Who better to abduct a child than someone who had already done it?
Portugal has no sex offenders register, so how did the PJ know that all these sex offenders were in the vicinity? Hewlett was not even on the British sex offender register, although he was wanted by crimestoppers.

Madeleine was one of a number of fair haired, blued eyed children on holiday at that particular time, so why her?

Simple, she was in the most insecure apartment and her parents on holiday and relaxing, were lulled into a false sense of security and unwittingly made it easier to abduct her than if she was walking along the street.
If it were anyone else in that apartment who had a child that was of the same looks as Madeleine, then that child would have been taken instead. I do not believe it was Madeleine in particular they wanted, just a child that looked like her. She was targeted because she was in that apartment, when more is known, we will probably discover that someone working for MW, tipped off someone else that a child of that kind was staying in that apartment.

Also holiday makers and their families had been targeted and intruders had been found in children's bedrooms.

In England we had a case where a mother had put her daughter in the bath, went to fetch something and someone entered the ground floor flat and abducted the child from her bath, right under the mother's nose! The child was taken away sexually abused and then returned and dumped in the ally way near her home, naked and freezing col in the middle of winter with snow on the ground.

Another case in London, a child was abducted from her bed while her father slept next door, this child was not so lucky, she was found murdered.

So taking children from inside their homes, although unusual, is not unheard of, it does happen.

However, I am confident that the McCanns detectives are doing all he right things.

I remain to be convinced that Raymond Hewlett had nothing to do with Madeleine's abduction, I think he did, and the more that we learn about him, the more convinced I am.

With the German police now having the blue truck and are searching it to see if there is any evidence that Madeleine was in it, this says to me that this investigation is now official and for that to happen, they must know something or they have found something.

They would not forensically examine that truck for no real reason. I hope they also question Mariana, she may know far more than she is letting on.

That truck got to Germany somehow and for some reason, Hewlett said he swapped it or sold it in Portugal - when? Of course it is not inconceivable that the person he swapped or sold it to, then drove it on to Germany - what a coincidence eh?
yet another big coincidence in a whole long line of coincidences!

Leonor Cipriano was convicted of the murder of her daughter on a lot LESS than the PJ are *prepared to ignore* in the Madeleine McCann investigation.

Something is not adding up with this man and it looks like the German police think this too, which is why this now looks as though it is official.

Meanwhile the PJ maintain there is not enough new evidence to reopen the Madeleine investigation, yet the PJ had Leonor Cipriano convicted of murder, on a lot less? And we are just supposed to accept this?

Well I don't!

Something happened in PDL and I think it concerns a level of corruption that is going to shock Portugal, it is going to involve the PJ, ex PJ, the judiciary, local politicians.

Something is being covered up and that GNR and that alleged 100.000 euros, was just brought out because whoever it was ordered that KNOW that the McCanns detectives are very very close to discovering the truth.

It does not matter what anyone does to conceal the truth now, it is going to come out and there is not a thing that anyone can do to stop it.

Good ALWAYS triumphs over evil!

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AlexG wrote:

are you saying because someone is poor they don't care about their child being sexually exploited?

Of course not.
I'm saying that poor people are more prone to have less education and trade children for money or any other thing and fell prey of someone who can deceive them in thinking that children will have better conditions.
There are places where people live alone on the streets, without family, asking for money and living from that, those poor children are more likely to fell pray of pedophiles than other children with more resources.

So if all these children are simply on the streets and an easy target for abductors, why did an abductor choose Carolina in broad daylight, when she was so near her parents?

You already answer that. The guy call her and she went. If someone would appear, the guy would ruin away, like he did, and nothing could have happened to him. Now think what would happen if the guy was caught inside the same house trying to kidnap Carolina ... And if the parents have a gun hidden inside the house ....
One thing if for someone to go walking on the street and call a child, even if the child is inside the house, and the child follow ....
Another one is to enter a building and risk for someone to be there or arrive ...
What excuse could the kidnapper give if he was found inside the house ?

Someone wanted a child that looked like Madeleine, for whatever reason, it could well be to replace a child who had maybe died and this is why they wanted a child of that age. I hope this is the case with all my heart, but the other possibilities have to be considered.

Precisely.
Someone who wanted a child like Madeleine or even Madeleine herself for whatever reason and not a random pedophile looking for the first child he could grab.

So taking children from inside their homes, although unusual, is not unheard of, it does happen.

Yes, most likely if the pedophile want that child in particular.

Spot on Alex

Madeleine was abducted to order. Some one wanted Madeleine. Why Madeleine?

.

Why madeleine?

1) some paedo - probably an elite - had seen her either in person or on a photograph and wanted her.
2) Rosies suggestion that she was a substitute for a lost / missing daughter
3) Some organisation wanted her for her perceived intellect.
4) To use as a pawn in a blackmail situation

Nos 2 and 4 are the least destructive to madeleine. Let us hope that one of these is the actual situation.

No 3 is the most sinister and upsetting, but it seems that scenario N0 1 is the most likely


Can anyone think of any other reasons that the abductor went to the trouble of endangering himself in order to take Madeleine?

I don't think the manner in which Madeleine was abducted was any more of a danger to the abductor, than if she was simply taken during the day from under her parents noses.

(Attempted abduction of Carolina Santos and the abduction of Rene Hesse, spring to mind).

In fact, the abductors knew that no one was looking at the children at that particular time, they thought the parents were in the restaurant, it was soon after a check, with some time to go before then next one, so far from being dangerous, they knew they were relatively safe, if only for that short space of time and far less likely to get caught, than if they were to try and abduct a child during the day and whose parents were vigilant and looking at them. I don't think for one minute that Madeleine would have been allowed to play outside on her own.

I am aware of the existence of such places that you mention Alex, where children can be taken from and that is a whole different situation. I think it actually deserves to be debated in its own merit, without adding the Madeleine factor in, which tends to confuse the situation.
I have continually been pointing this out over the last two years, that children could go missing from there and no one bothers to even report their disappearance etc. Which would probably drive a wagon and horses through the official figures for abduction of children in Portugal - yet another reason why the powers that be do not want anyone to know the real truth. I also know that Portugal has a problem with children being forced into underage prostitution.

I have it on good authority, been made aware, that the Algarve probably has some big problems that may be being covered up, which involve corruption, quite how far that corruption goes, has yet to be determined. But it is likely to be at a local level and in connection with some kind of operation, that covers the Algarve. The sudden proclamation about the GNR guard and the 100.000 euros, has confirmed this too, that man was almost certainly set up. But whether he agreed to be the fall guy 'for a price', has yet to be determined!

However Alex, the places you mention are very unlikely to have a blonde, blue eyed child are they?

The person that attempted to abduct Carolina, ran away, well yes he would, and if the person that abducted Madeleine, was disturbed he/she would have ran away too.

This is probably why the window was opened.

He/she entered the apartment, opened the window, planned the escape route, (probably out of the front door), but opened the window first, in case the had to do a quick exit, in case anyone came back unexpectedly. By the time the person coming back, had opened the patio doors and walked to the children's bedroom, the abductor would be long gone!

The apartment was very quiet, no inside noise and no noise outside, so the slightest noise of the patio doors being slid open or even the front door being opened and closed by someone returning unexpectedly would have alerted them and they would be gone in next to no time, out of the window and down the road and by the time whoever it was returning had got to the window, no one would be visible.

This in my opinion is what the window was opened for, it is logical, straight forward and simple.

The danger here in my opinion, that in the absence of any real hard and fast facts, because of the deplorable and *highly suspect and questionable way* in which Goncalo Amaral conducted this investigation, is that people are interpreting all kinds of things and are factoring in conspiracy theories, when in my opinion, the truth when it does come although will shock Portugal to the core, will be relatively simple.

The reasons I say the truth will shock people, is more concerning who the truth will implicate, more than anything else and the Portuguese people will be very angry that they have been taken for a ride and used and taken for idiots by someone they thought they could trust.

I really believe that the Hewlett story and involvement is the tipping point and is slowly opening up a huge can of *fat* wriggly worms! A ring of 5 possibly 6 people at grass roots level in the Algarve, were employed ,and then comes the people paid to cover it all up and keep it quiet. I believe there is a ring in operation, but it is not on a grand scale.

While the physical abduction of Madeleine McCann was actually easy enough, the *big* mistake was assuming that Kate and Gerry would after while, just go quietly away, return to England without their daughter and forget about her.

This is the *arrogance* of which a certain person views others, he seems to have no concept that people love their child and would move heaven and earth to get her back, this was completely over looked.
The misogynistic way in which Kate McCann was treated, is as much part of this abduction, as the abduction itself, because it is a clear insight as to why someone thought they could abduct Madeleine (or any child that was in Madeleine's position) and get away with it in the first place. Because previously abductions have been kept low key and the blame shifted on to the parents or any other available person (Michael Cook), this person did not bargain for the tenacity of the parents, or their strength and utter determination not to give up on their daughter.
When all the publicity came it shocked him to the core, and he quickly realised that if something wasn't done to shift the attention away from the investigation, then he and a lot of other people were going to be taken down by Madeleine's abduction.
This is why we saw the leaking of bizarre theory, after theory, after theory, the defamation, the smearing, the slurs, it was all part of a plan of action in which to destroy the McCanns credibility, and although it was never going to be proved, it was designed to make the McCanns *appear* complicit in the disappearance of their child for three simple reasons:

1. To deter people from looking properly for the child
   
2. To have them blamed, thus taking away any diverse attention from the PJ and thus alerted to what is actually happening on the Algarve.
   
3. To protect Portugal's tourist industry.
   

So like I said I have worked out something that may or may not be close to the truth, but whatever is the truth, I think when it comes, it will be relatively simple. It will involve a few people in authority, yes, but it will still be simple.

Also, note that the person has never mentioned murder, yet insists that Madeleine died by accident!

For those that have studied behavioural psychology, even to a lesser degree, will know this is a huge and gaping error!

*How on earth would he know this? Madeleine is disappeared and he is saying she is dead and probably met with an accident? Thus after all the incredible pressure and the psychological battering the parents had been taking suddenly offering the McCanns a way out, to go back home and forget it all?

Again *arrogance* and a complete and utter UNDER estimation of the sheer determination of the parents. This is what has dogged all along.

Amaral's book itself is a way of shifting blame, from the very Title to the last page, that book is one huge excuse for Amaral and a way out!

Why has he felt the need to go to such extraordinary lengths? To get in first?

I agree completely with you Rosiepops, and this will only end when sweet Madeleine is found, when she returns to her parents where she belongs.

Pedro Silva wrote:I agree completely with you Rosiepops, and this will only end when sweet Madeleine is found, when she returns to her parents where she belongs.

Yes Rosie.I'm thinking along the same lines too..........poor Madeleine..Lets hope and pray she is returned alive.

Pedro my friend, you are 100% correct. I am hoping that the good people of Portugal begin to realise this soon and help the McCanns detectives and give them whatever information they may have, in order that Madeleine be found and returned home and the guilty people caught.

In order for this to happen, it is imperative that the Portuguese people understand that the parents are not guilty and that there is still very much a chance that Madeleine is alive and waiting to be found, but even if this is not so, she still must be found.

I believe and have faith, that the Portuguese people are beginning to see this and recognise it and then through this, the vital information comes through.

Pedro, I think this is already happening,I think there is much going on behind the scenes than we realise.

One day soon Pedro, we will have some big news, I am convinced of this, we have to have faith and believe it and it will happen. Madeleine WILL be found.

Hi Cat

I believe this 100% I think Madeleine will be found and we will discover what happened to her.

This is the message that somehow we must get across to those ordinary good people in PDL, because through them I believe we WILL find Madeleine.

I hope like you she is not or has not suffered with all my heart I hope this, like each and every person on this forum.

But even if the worse has happened, she must still be found and deserves to be found and brought home and laid to rest in peace and dignity near her family.

Having said that, I am still hoping and believing for the best! I just feel she is there, not too far away. Don't ask me why, I just feel it.

Rosiepops wrote:Hi Cat

I believe this 100% I think Madeleine will be found and we will discover what happened to her.

This is the message that somehow we must get across to those ordinary good people in PDL, because through them I believe we WILL find Madeleine.

I hope like you she is not or has not suffered with all my heart I hope this, like each and every person on this forum.

But even if the worse has happened, she must still be found and deserves to be found and brought home and laid to rest in peace and dignity near her family.

Having said that, I am still hoping and believing for the best! I just feel she is there, not too far away. Don't ask me why, I just feel it.

I've been saying for over two years that the answer lies right at the begining.........and I agree either way she must be brought home and the evil Bstrds punished..........I just hope that the Locals aren't too afraid to speak out..........

Until evidence otherwise given to me by the private investigators, everything I do, is in the hope that she can still be found alive. I too am still hoping for a happy outcome.

Rosiepops wrote:I don't think the manner in which Madeleine was abducted was any more of a danger to the abductor, than if she was simply taken during the day from under her parents noses.

(Attempted abduction of Carolina Santos and the abduction of Rene Hesse, spring to mind).

In fact, the abductors knew that no one was looking at the children at that particular time, they thought the parents were in the restaurant, it was soon after a check, with some time to go before then next one, so far from being dangerous, they knew they were relatively safe, if only for that short space of time and far less likely to get caught, than if they were to try and abduct a child during the day and whose parents were vigilant and looking at them. I don't think for one minute that Madeleine would have been allowed to play outside on her own.

I am aware of the existence of such places that you mention Alex, where children can be taken from and that is a whole different situation. I think it actually deserves to be debated in its own merit, without adding the Madeleine factor in, which tends to confuse the situation.
I have continually been pointing this out over the last two years, that children could go missing from there and no one bothers to even report their disappearance etc. Which would probably drive a wagon and horses through the official figures for abduction of children in Portugal - yet another reason why the powers that be do not want anyone to know the real truth. I also know that Portugal has a problem with children being forced into underage prostitution.

I have it on good authority, been made aware, that the Algarve probably has some big problems that may be being covered up, which involve corruption, quite how far that corruption goes, has yet to be determined. But it is likely to be at a local level and in connection with some kind of operation, that covers the Algarve. The sudden proclamation about the GNR guard and the 100.000 euros, has confirmed this too, that man was almost certainly set up. But whether he agreed to be the fall guy 'for a price', has yet to be determined!

However Alex, the places you mention are very unlikely to have a blonde, blue eyed child are they?

The person that attempted to abduct Carolina, ran away, well yes he would, and if the person that abducted Madeleine, was disturbed he/she would have ran away too.

This is probably why the window was opened.

He/she entered the apartment, opened the window, planned the escape route, (probably out of the front door), but opened the window first, in case the had to do a quick exit, in case anyone came back unexpectedly. By the time the person coming back, had opened the patio doors and walked to the children's bedroom, the abductor would be long gone!

The apartment was very quiet, no inside noise and no noise outside, so the slightest noise of the patio doors being slid open or even the front door being opened and closed by someone returning unexpectedly would have alerted them and they would be gone in next to no time, out of the window and down the road and by the time whoever it was returning had got to the window, no one would be visible.

This in my opinion is what the window was opened for, it is logical, straight forward and simple.

The danger here in my opinion, that in the absence of any real hard and fast facts, because of the deplorable and *highly suspect and questionable way* in which Goncalo Amaral conducted this investigation, is that people are interpreting all kinds of things and are factoring in conspiracy theories, when in my opinion, the truth when it does come although will shock Portugal to the core, will be relatively simple.

The reasons I say the truth will shock people, is more concerning who the truth will implicate, more than anything else and the Portuguese people will be very angry that they have been taken for a ride and used and taken for idiots by someone they thought they could trust.

I really believe that the Hewlett story and involvement is the tipping point and is slowly opening up a huge can of *fat* wriggly worms! A ring of 5 possibly 6 people at grass roots level in the Algarve, were employed ,and then comes the people paid to cover it all up and keep it quiet. I believe there is a ring in operation, but it is not on a grand scale.

While the physical abduction of Madeleine McCann was actually easy enough, the *big* mistake was assuming that Kate and Gerry would after while, just go quietly away, return to England without their daughter and forget about her.

This is the *arrogance* of which a certain person views others, he seems to have no concept that people love their child and would move heaven and earth to get her back, this was completely over looked.
The misogynistic way in which Kate McCann was treated, is as much part of this abduction, as the abduction itself, because it is a clear insight as to why someone thought they could abduct Madeleine (or any child that was in Madeleine's position) and get away with it in the first place. Because previously abductions have been kept low key and the blame shifted on to the parents or any other available person (Michael Cook), this person did not bargain for the tenacity of the parents, or their strength and utter determination not to give up on their daughter.
When all the publicity came it shocked him to the core, and he quickly realised that if something wasn't done to shift the attention away from the investigation, then he and a lot of other people were going to be taken down by Madeleine's abduction.
This is why we saw the leaking of bizarre theory, after theory, after theory, the defamation, the smearing, the slurs, it was all part of a plan of action in which to destroy the McCanns credibility, and although it was never going to be proved, it was designed to make the McCanns *appear* complicit in the disappearance of their child for three simple reasons:

1. To deter people from looking properly for the child
   
2. To have them blamed, thus taking away any diverse attention from the PJ and thus alerted to what is actually happening on the Algarve.
   
3. To protect Portugal's tourist industry.
   

So like I said I have worked out something that may or may not be close to the truth, but whatever is the truth, I think when it comes, it will be relatively simple. It will involve a few people in authority, yes, but it will still be simple.

Also, note that the person has never mentioned murder, yet insists that Madeleine died by accident!

For those that have studied behavioural psychology, even to a lesser degree, will know this is a huge and gaping error!

*How on earth would he know this? Madeleine is disappeared and he is saying she is dead and probably met with an accident? Thus after all the incredible pressure and the psychological battering the parents had been taking suddenly offering the McCanns a way out, to go back home and forget it all?

Again *arrogance* and a complete and utter UNDER estimation of the sheer determination of the parents. This is what has dogged all along.

Amaral's book itself is a way of shifting blame, from the very Title to the last page, that book is one huge excuse for Amaral and a way out!

Why has he felt the need to go to such extraordinary lengths? To get in first?

Basically, ! go along with your hypothesis, Rosie as to the most likely abductor.

I have two people in mind, whose names i am not prepared to disclose, but the one is political and the other is a private Elite (or group of elites)

The reasons for the window being open are at varience to my thoughts, but then the window being open is not terribly important in the whole scenario, except it indicates the likelyhood of at least two people involved.

The failed pick up, undicates a third person IMO, although that could be wrong. The second person having helped with the actual picking up of Madeleine, could have been walking back to the pick up vehicle via the alleyways around the flats, when he/she saw Jez and Gerry talking - and also have seen Jane walk by. So he/she just skulked in the alleyway, then thought better of it and scarpered for his own safety.

This scenario would explain the Portuguese dogs following a trail around the block (although way back about Christmas time, we were surprised that they could follow the scent of a carried Madeleine, let alone the scent of someone who was no longer even carrrying her).

To me, Yes, we have to find the actual abductors - but even more importantly we have to find the man/men behind these abductions. Otherwise this scenaio will keep happening. Children will be missing all over the world at an ever increasing rate.

And Madeleine, we want you back with Mummy and Daddy, well and as soon as possible.

In luie of the hue and cry caused by the vigilance, persistence and energy of the McCanns and their supporters (You can all take a bow!), it is my thought that Madeleine may have received very special treament and not been touched.

To be charged with abduction/kidnap is a very different charge from paedophilia.

I almost feel that is the best scenario that we can hope for, because I think that it is very unlikely that Madeleine has been stolen to replace a lost child.

I don't think that either Sadie, it is just easier to think this, if you understand what I mean, I want it to be something like this because this would mean that Madeleine would be unharmed physically and less damage done mentally.

I think there is a group of 'lowly' people used at any one time, then you start to go higher up the chain. Where I differ from you, I do not think that this concerns any really high up people, maybe some lower ranking politicians and some GNR and PJ, Judiciary etc. However, high it does go, I still think that they have these people that are doing the work like abductions and these are very likely to be people *like* Hewlett and his partner and the other man they are currently looking at.
How likely is this to be connected to the people responsible for Casa Pia? The majority of those people have been let off, because vital information was mysteriously lost and people lost their jobs and one is even now in prison having be framed on a financial corruption charge! (Echos what is now starting to happen with the GNR and 100.000 euros? Scapegoat perhaps?)

What really matters here is to find her, hopefully alive and well, but, if she had been sexually molested, when she is found (hopefully alive and soon) she wil have the rest of her life to overcome this, with the help of her parents, with the help of specialists, experts in these fields. Take the example of Natascha Kampusch. I´m not saying our sweet Madeleine is at a paedophile net. Could be, could be not. Only the private investigators knows. So, I´m not going to speculate.

''I don't think the manner in which Madeleine was abducted was any more
of a danger to the abductor, than if she was simply taken during the
day from under her parents noses.''


hi rosie

exactly.

children can go missing right under the noses of their parents...where Carolina srpings to mind for you Rosie...i also thought of James bulger,the 2 year old little boy who was shopping with his mammy.She let go of his hand for a few seconds and he was snatched by two 10 year old boys.
There are babies snatched out of hospitals,children snatched from schools......other children molested and taken from their beds while there parents are right there.

infact in 2006 a 6 year old girl was taken from her bath in her home while her mum left her momentarily.He went into the home,took her out of the bath tub, put her into his car and drove her for 15 -20 minuits during which time he had subjected her to numerous serious sexual assaults including rape before dumping her near her home, naked in the back lanes.

Her mum said this.........

"My little girl was in the bath in her own home within earshot of
everyone else in the flat, the back door was shut and I'd only just
left the bathroom to go to another room when she was snatched. "It's every mother's nightmare to think your children aren't safe in their home.
"You wouldn't think you would have to lock all your doors this early in
the evening to protect your children from anyone entering your home
uninvited."
Sad isnt it?Theres only one place for people like that and that's either in the showers with some crazy guys everyday all day....or hung slowly until they take their last rotten breath.
I think they should bring back capitol punishment i do.I would gladly press the button on them all.Wouldn't bother me in the slightest.Infact it would be a pleasure,it would be the best job in the world.I wouldn't even wanna get payed for it..i would do it free of charge all day everyday.
Madeline imo was not abducted by a lone person who just happened to be walking by that night.
Someone must of known those children were definitly alone.Even if they saw the parents leaving them and going out it didn't mean they were alone.How would an abductor know that there wasn't someone else in that room with them?How did they know the children were even in that particular room?How did they know the children were not at the creche baby sitting facilities.Just because they saw the mccanns going back and forth there didn't mean they were checking the kids.It could be they went back to fetch something,or to do somethign else.
Someone knew they were definitely there in that particular room unsupervised.

Another way of looking at it is this way........
The creche is down the hill towards the tapas and through the reception area...so the mccanns would have had to take their children there before going out.If an abductor was watching them before they even went out then he would know that the children was not at the creche.BUT how would he of known they were definitely in the room alone???
A witness came forward stating that a woman,a blond woman, was seen peering in through the window of Madeleine's bedroom.I believe that statement is a positive sighting of Madeleine's abductors.I think she was stalking the apartment out.Making sure the kids were in that room....i think someone else was going to go into the room and take the child,that person passed madeleine through the window to the woman and then ran back out through the patio doors,he then went to the van,got into it and that's when Jane tanner saw someone passing at the top of the road( the woman with the child!) She then got into the van and they drove off.
So there was no finger prints and scuff marks on the window of the bedroom because there were two....madeleine was carefully passed to the woman while the abductor then left through the patio doors empty handed.
I think jane saw a woman,not a man.It might also explain the clumsy way the child was carried in.A woman who either couldn't carry her properly because she aint got the strength to carry her properly............... or because she was being gentle and careful to leave her almost led in the same position she was taken(so as not to wake her)A guy might whip them up over their shoulder etc whereas a woman might know how to do it without desterbing them?Not sure.But i for one have carried my daghter that way many times.If she falls asleep on the settee i wont move her too much.I will pick her up and try to not alter her positiosn as best i can.

Rosiepops wrote:I don't think that either Sadie, it is just easier to think this, if you understand what I mean, I want it to be something like this because this would mean that Madeleine would be unharmed physically and less damage done mentally.

I think there is a group of 'lowly' people used at any one time, then you start to go higher up the chain. Where I differ from you, I do not think that this concerns any really high up people, maybe some lower ranking politicians and some GNR and PJ, Judiciary etc. However, high it does go, I still think that they have these people that are doing the work like abductions and these are very likely to be people *like* Hewlett and his partner and the other man they are currently looking at.
How likely is this to be connected to the people responsible for Casa Pia? The majority of those people have been let off, because vital information was mysteriously lost and people lost their jobs and one is even now in prison having be framed on a financial corruption charge! (Echos what is now starting to happen with the GNR and 100.000 euros? Scapegoat perhaps?)

Rosie, you may be right about it involving people at lower levels and not the absolute Elite

BUT

!) Where is the money coming from to set up this GNR Officer (If we are correct with our thoughts, of course)...............and pay off other people to keep quiet, apparantly?

2) Where does the money come from for expensive (slick shiny) suits and lunches and booze and big cars? I make no accusations about the person I am refering to, but it is noticeable that he lives a life that most Police Inspectors would not be able to sustain, in this country anyhow - and isn't he in his second marriage? Divorce usually drains resources. As I said before I make no accusations, but this is unusual enough, I would have thought, for questions to be asked.

3) Where is the money coming from to pay the 'finders', abductors and transporters of these lost children?

4) Who is in a position to influence the media and public opinion? Does that take money? How was it done?

5) Who is the person who has the brains and seems able to provide so many red herrings? Does that cost money?.........and who has organisational abilities beyond the norm?

6) Who is the person with the power to 'bu***r up (excuse me!) the Cipriano Trial in so many ways? All through it, undue influence was being exerted to try and change the course of Justice.

I still wonder if the final sentence was reduced because of corrupt influences. I wonder if Amaral and the other cop (name forgotten, sorry) would have go off scot free, had Marcos and the lawyers behind him (names forgotten, sorry) hadn't been so persistent and at the same time the world hadn't been watching?

Henry Peacock - the main judge, (that was his name was it not?) seemed almost ambivalent about the case and at one stage, it seemed to me that he was on the side of corruption. We have to rely on newspaper and media reports over here and I must obviously been wrong about that - because Amaral and the other cop were found 'guilty'. Although, appparantly, this has to be proven in another Court.

Elites usually come in a package with Power. Money buys corruption


And what about the men who were being 'looked after' by the poor orphans at Casa Pia? A good many of them were very Elite, especially within Government, the Media and Judiciary, if reports on the internet are correct.

They will be getting their 'wants and needs' looked after. You can bet your bottom dollar on that.

How?

Clairesy, a good post BUT I have to disagree with you - sorry

To go into a premises to steal is much more dangerous than stealing a child outside.

1) you can be caught withinh the building - takes some explaining that does.

2) If you are walking away with a child out of doors and anyone challenges you, then you say something like, " Oh, she said she was lost. I was just taking her to the Polce station" Any excuse will do

3) If you are caught carry a sleeping/drugged child, then that takes some explaining too!


In other words, the outside abduction can be passed off as something that has accidentally happened and the abductor is helping.
No such excuses will suffice for being caught in a home, or with a child who has been taken from that home - especially if the child is asleep or drugged.

Hi saide,

a British mp was recently done for possessing porn im sure he got the money for this from the taxes that workers in the uk pay.Not sure.

BUT................

What if the children are payed for by some high up animal who gets the cash through fund he isnt suppose to be dipping into.Sounds far fetched maybe although im not so sure that is to far fetched.As carlos silvino said...''they cant touch me...there are too many big people involved in this''

i dont think they have a problem with money

Also carlos's laid back and careless approach to the casa pia scandle tells me that he is confident enough to say those words....

as confident as someone involved in the Madeleine case maybe?

I do not think this is an international organisation either, I think it is lower key than that. I make that reasoning on the back of information that has come to light lately.

I agree, carrying a child around like that does not indicate professionals.
However, what must be factored in here is that it looks like there was a hitch in the abductors plans and that hitch was Gerry McCann, standing in the road and talking to Jes Wilkins after he had checked the children, instead of returning to the restaurant immediately, as he had done at other times. Without going into details, I can think of several reasons why this happened.

With regard to the car, I think just maybe the car which was going to be used to take Madeleine away, was parked in the same road that Gerry and Jes were stood talking in and to move a car at that point would have just arose suspicion and later would have been remembered. Again I tend to agree, I believe at the point of abduction, there was 2 or 3 persons involved, everything seems to point to this.

It is still not known for certain that Hewlett had a white van at that time, but I regard that man as highly suspect. There are different drawings of suspects before Madeleine was abducted, I think he closely resembles the one with the droopy mustache, however, I do have to say, that Hewlett's partner, Mariana, looks more like that sketch than Hewlett himself, from what I have seen of her, she seems to have very masculine features and the points that make think this, are, her eyebrows, nose, mouth, cheekbones ad teeth and her hair and also her age would fit. You are also correct, the sketch of the man, may have been an accomplice and not Hewlett.
Returning to the van, Hewlett was a mechanic in the army, what was to stop him having two vehicles? One blue Dodge (which is no undergoing forensic tests in Germany), the other a white van, which he kept hidden and quiet about? Some friends of his have sworn that Hewlett had a white Mercedes van at the time Madeleine disappeared and everything else this couple has said has been true, so I tend to believe them about this van.

There is a time difference between Jane Tanner's sighting and the Smith family's sighting, but in-between this we have the Carpenter's, who said she heard someone calling a name which sounded like 'Madeleine'. I hesitantly and tentatively suggest here, that perhaps the name that Mrs Carpenter heard was NOT Madeleine, but 'Marian' or 'Mariana', which of course is Hewlett's partner's name. (Yet another coincidence)

While I think that paedophiles may have carried this abduction out, I do not necessarily think that they did this for themselves, I think maybe they were told to abduct a child of this appearance, and Madeleine was unfortunately in the wrong place at the wrong time. From the time of the abduction, I think they walked off like that, precisely because they were scared to hang around waiting for a car/van, because the alarm would soon be raised, they only had a small window, so they could not risk waiting there.
As you say, it may not have been Hewlett, but someone else entirely, or an accomplice.

I think it is likely Madeleine could be being held captive not far from PDL, who knows, prior to Josef Fritzel, would we ever have thought that possible?
Something that makes me doubt that is the Dutch sighting by Anna Stam, in the fancy dress type shop, I do not think that woman was lying, but she may have been mistaken, but she also may have seen and spoken to Madeleine. So hesitantly, I think Madeleine may have been moved soon after she was abducted.

Again I agree with you, someone or some people local to Praia da Luz, do know what happened to Madeleine and some more besides may know something, yet not know they know it and these entirely innocent people, may have been deterred from contacting the police with what they know, because they have been made to think that Madeleine has died, and her parents had something to do with it, so they may discount their information and this is why it is so important to get the message out there that:

Madeleine is still alive and still a findable little girl

So anyone who thinks they may have any information, no matter how insignificant they think it is, should contact the McCanns detectives on + 44 845 838 4699 or email on investigation@findmadeleine.com Please let the detectives be the judge of any information.

Sadie, I disagree with you sorry.

Place yourself in the mind set of an abductor, you see a child, you discover where she is staying and then you watch and discover (or are told) that the children are left each night.

You keep watch and learn you have at least a 20 minute range of time, where no one is watching the children.

It has to be far easier to enter via an unlocked door, immediately open the window, in case you have to perform a quick get away. Take the child and gone, 2/3 minutes in the apartment tops, without anyone looking.

I think that this is why the window was opened, precisely to give the abductor a quick exit should they need it.

Abducting a child off of the street, you are more likely to be seen by someone as there are many people around. This is why they went into this apartment.

Also you have to remember that tourist and their children had been targeted on the Algarve and there has been reports of intruders disturbed inside a child's bedroom.

This is why this particular apartment was of interest, it was on a corner and it was on the ground and it was on a road and the other side opened out onto a car park.