Gonc tries to release his book

clairesy wrote:Just found this article on the madeleine news section although I can read it as its in another language.Could be Portuguese.......looks it......IM interested as I can pick out madeleine joana gonc and the privates met 3????please someone...maria...helen???HELP!!!!!!!!Ithink the news channel is called notice de journel??
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This is a piece of news published today in Jornal de Notícias. I'll try to to translate, but that will be really difficult for me... You will get a piece in pidgeon english, according to Sky bloggers, but I hope you can understand... Sorry.

"An ex-convict who wanted to get some money in exchanged for informations on Madeleine and Joana, ended up as victim of his own lie. He assures having been victim of extortion and homicide attempt from the PIs of Metodo3 to whom he promised to make revelations.

Faro PJ investigates the report. The ex-con would have contacted the spanish PI office hired by the McCanns to find their daughter Madeleine. He assured them to have informations about the little girl and also Joana -- from Figueira, Portimão, the young girl vanished in September 2004 -- given by João Cipriano currently serving a jail sentence for the murder of his niece. They would have met in prison.

The man said that Cipriano told him he had recent photos of Joana which would prove she was still alive. He also assured knowing what happened to Madeleine. He arranged several meetings with the PIs, who ended up paying for information that never got. The ex-con 'postponed meetings and made up several excuses' told JN a police source.

Fed up of waiting and feeling cheated, the spanish lost their temper and demanded, coarsely(?), that he told them what he knew. According to the victim, he was victim of an attempt of a run down when he walked along a road near Faro. JN tried to get a reaction from Metodo3 without success.

GA, ex-coordinator of Madeleine's case, was responsible for the inquiry, but requested to be excused. The investigator alledged incompatibilities due to the fact of being involved in the process of Joana's mother. He is accused of omitting denunciation and perjury. "

Personal note -- So now we have an extortionist been extorted of the money he extorted!!! And an ex-con no less, who probably knows all about extortion!!! And a police force spending time and money to chase the extortionist's extortionists!!! And the chase for Madeleine halted (at least for now. God knows for how long it has been and will stay like that). And a paper printing all of this. Well, at least we know where our money goes to!!!

I probably didn't make myself clear.

Of course Portugal have laws against libel and everything else, I'm even told they are one of the most advanced in Europe with regards of human rights in all its aspects. That is not the point. The point is that our People is not acquainted to these laws and therefore our judiciary system has not the habit of thinking deeply about these problems... I referred the 'age' of our democracy not because it might be 'short' but because it is not yet 'embedded' in our character.
Oh Diane I'm really proud of these last 34 years of my country's history!

'His book is spreading deliberate lies (which he knows to be false and he cannot prove them)'. That's is the point. He is repeating what is in the files and the files may contain many misjudgements. BUT two things: the files have been archived because whatever was in there proved nothing (so lies or not it was unusable) AND he repeats things out of context. Because of what I say above, I don't know how the case should be put together and how are the courts going to handle it. But I have no doubts it is a libel case!

'Additionally, items published on the web are generally considered to belong to the country which owns the service'. Are you saying that only the blog owners are to be sued? For instance, Sky recently changed their modus operandi and made the bloggers responsible for whatever they post. Are you telling me these bloggers will get happily away? Or 3A bloggers? I know, I know it smells of revenge here, but the bloggers made the blogs, in spite of the owners' agendas...

'I also beleive that if the book is printed in English and sold in English speaking countries,then he will be sued in those countries.' I certainly hope so. But how would the sentence be carried out then? And what if it is spread only by tourists or expats taking it into the UK pe?

Maria,

so am I right saying that from that report in the Jornal de Notícias.....an ex convict(who was in jail with joana uncle) as stated he knows that both joana and madeleine are alive.BUT...he is lying and is only saying this to get money??

And that joanas uncle told him(whislt in jail)that he also knows the child(joana)is alive as he as a recent picture?

I cant work it out very well and am not sure if this is lies...or if its actually being investigated to see how much of it is true.

I must admit though...I have always thought that both madeleine and joana would be found together one day. I have always been convinced that both these little girls were victim to the same abductor/s

Gawwwwd im going to have to try to find out more about this as its baffled me and i find it a extremely odd thing to report given that the two little ones have been mentioned.Joanas family have always been convinced that madeleine was taken by the same people that joana were taken by. Im inclined to believe them .

Thing is...i see it this way...I love my friends and family dearly but if I thought for one Minuit that one of them were involved in the abduction or murder of any child(let alone their own)I would have to encourage them to confess ..if not im afraid I would have to take it out of their hands and confess it for them.I wouldn't be apart of something so sinister.So for their family and friends to also be convinced of their innocence and say that something more sinister lies beneath the surface I would say that they are probably right.Ive heared of a pact where a couple of people get together to cover a lie...but not a whole bleeding family Or group of friends.If one or two people are saying the same thing it can be questioned...but for many to be soooooo adamant raises serious questions for me.

The ex governess of the casa pia children's home as retired now...but she stated that she 'believes without a doubt' that the abuse still goes on at the home.However a child welfare worker as been there and talked with staff and is convinced all is well and no"strange business"is going on anymore???HmmmmI think maybe a chat with the children and not the staff would have been a good idea though??The reason i mention this home here is because i have also wondered if madeleine and/or joana have been sadly caught up in the same sort of scandle and maybe have been covered and hidden the same way the casa pia case was/has.Not sure...just a thought

Heres the link about the ex governess saying the abuse still goes on there.

http://portugalresident.com/portugalresident/showstory.asp?ID=22176

Claire

I told it would be pidgeon english...

Let's retry:

The police is investigating the following story:

An ex-convict tries to get smart and make some money on Madeleine. He contacts M3 and says:

1. I met João Cipriano in prison and made friends with him
2. He has recent pictures of Joana proving she is alive
3. I know what happened to Madeleine but I want to be paid for that information

M3 people made arrangements to meet him several times and even paid him some money. He postponed the meetings one after the other (after receiving the money of course) presenting several excuses.

Fed up, M3 people gave him a treat.

He was almost run over while walking on the side of a road.

The piece does not confirm if he even knows João Cipriano!

Awwww thank you maria!!

Think i got ya know..LOLL

What a freak then he is...fancy saying such awful things just to extort money from them..Best left in the trash men like him.I hope they caught up with him after and punished him??

Claire (cntd)

And just for you to evaluate how news are evaluated in the media, I must add that Joana Cipriano is reffered as Joana Guerreiro: a mistake surely.

But in the 1:00 pm news TVI repeats, word by word, the same error. no reviewing, no correction -- probably the reporter didn't even know what s/he was talking about!

maria wrote:I probably didn't make myself clear.

Of course Portugal have laws against libel and everything else, I'm even told they are one of the most advanced in Europe with regards of human rights in all its aspects. That is not the point. The point is that our People is not acquainted to these laws and therefore our judiciary system has not the habit of thinking deeply about these problems... I referred the 'age' of our democracy not because it might be 'short' but because it is not yet 'embedded' in our character.
Oh Diane I'm really proud of these last 34 years of my country's history!

'His book is spreading deliberate lies (which he knows to be false and he cannot prove them)'. That's is the point. He is repeating what is in the files and the files may contain many misjudgements. BUT two things: the files have been archived because whatever was in there proved nothing (so lies or not it was unusable) AND he repeats things out of context. Because of what I say above, I don't know how the case should be put together and how are the courts going to handle it. But I have no doubts it is a libel case!

'Additionally, items published on the web are generally considered to belong to the country which owns the service'. Are you saying that only the blog owners are to be sued? For instance, Sky recently changed their modus operandi and made the bloggers responsible for whatever they post. Are you telling me these bloggers will get happily away? Or 3A bloggers? I know, I know it smells of revenge here, but the bloggers made the blogs, in spite of the owners' agendas...

'I also beleive that if the book is printed in English and sold in English speaking countries,then he will be sued in those countries.' I certainly hope so. But how would the sentence be carried out then? And what if it is spread only by tourists or expats taking it into the UK pe?

Thank you for you replies, and your replies are very clear, and appreciated. I think that as far as the libel case goes we are on the same page. It doesnt matter that there have been few (if any) libel cases, this is a good case. And IMO, what you say about the lawyers not thinking in terms of libel, will mean that papers like CdM and books like Gonc's will be be riddled with potential libellous comments, purely because they are not on guard against such things. In Britain, even where they know they will be sued, certain papers got a bit carried away and you saw the results. I can only imagine how bad (libel wise) these things are when no care is taken at all.

As for suing the bloggers. Living in one country is no defence for being sued in another country. The cases I have read about took on the author of the blog, and the action was taken in the country where the blog is published. And as I said with Google blogs, this is the US. But it is going to be expensive to go international. The bloggers who should be most worried are those that published in Portugal, Britain and the US. And I also doubt that the standard bloggers will be targed. However, the blog owners, authors and moderators will, in my opinon, be targeted. They are after all essentially responsible for what is published, as they have the ability to remove any libellous comments that other posters make. I will very interested in actually what happens and if any of the bloggers are sued. It has been done before, so the McCanns can do it if they choose to.

The thing with libel is, it doesnt matter where it is published, it is where the information is purchased, or in the case of the internet, where it is read, that is the point. So publishing in Portugal and selling in England, will lead to a UK libel suit. How that affects the person who wrote it if they live in another country, i dont know. But the publishers and the sellers in the UK will definitely be sued. And for that reason, I doubt that a single publishing house world wide will print Gonc's book in English. We will have to wait and see how it pans out.

Maria, thank you for you contributions to this forum. I really appreciate your views, and I know that other members do as well.

sue the Portuguese media, this will be a turning point in Portugal? Often a test case as big and as potentially explosive as this has the power to open people's eyes. I do not know of course how this case would be conducted in Portugal, if in private or public, but if in public, then people get to see the savagery of libellous remarks and the totally devastating effect that these lies have on people and their lives and perhaps then people will not think that libel is a victimless offense?

If Kate and Gerry do decide to sue the Portuguese press (and Goncalo Amaral) it obviously will not be about the money, it will be about damage these unfounded and unsubstantiated lies have had on actually finding Madeleine and on their lives as a whole and this will prove to be very emotive.

I cannot even begin to state what the effect will be on Goncalo Amaral and the Portuguese press, if it turned out that while they were busy attacking this couple with baseless leaks, smears, lies and innuendo, a vital lead or even vital leads were either ignored, tossed aside, or not followed up correctly and they could have lead to the safe return of little Madeleine. If people suddenly realise that the papers and Goncalo Amaral have played them for fools and because of that have lead them to believe something about the McCann's that wasn't true, I do not think that there is much difference between the ordinary decent Portuguese citizen to us in the UK or the US, Australia, NZ etc they will not like it and their wrath will be in the extreme and it will be because an innocent child is involved. A child that could have been found if the person charged with looking for her hadn't decided on a whim that the parents were guilty and then just stop looking for her.

The PJ may say now that they will never stop looking for Madeleine and they will go to the ends of the earth if necessary, but they should have done this when there was a real chance that they could have found this poor little girls and restored her to her family where she belongs. I just feel this statement by the PJ was just more of what we have come to expect from the PJ "empty words". Empty mealy mouth words, the case is shelved, closed and is now gathering dust and this is exactly where it has been since June 2007, so what's new?

Somehow I think we will be seeing the McCann's *not* clamouring for pieces of information that can lead to them issuing libel writs, they will be scoring the files looking for information and leads to help them find Madeleine.

In the integrity, truth and dignity stakes, the McCann's leave Goncalo Amaral in the starting blocks, Amaral just hasn't got any, while the McCann's have ample.

God Bless little Madeleine, I just hope and pray that these files give Kate and Gerry and the investigators the vital breakthrough they so desperately want and Madeleine so desperately deserves. Madeleine does not deserve failed detectives like Goncalo Amaral and Paulo Cristovao making money out of her dreadful situation, it is odious and inhumane and shows a total disregard for human life, as well as the little life of Madeleine McCann's.

I hope one day soon the Portuguese people will see how bad this odious creep Amaral has made Portugal look.

Where else in the world have we witnessed such callous behaviour? Such a blatant money making exercise using and abusing this little girl's face and situation? I cannot think of any other country where this has been allowed to happen!

This whole affair is reflecting very badly on Portugal, a few hundred people in Portugal may queue up to read this muck raking unsubstantiated collection of fairy tales, but these people will soon go, the queues will disappear, the literary "rubber neckers" will just move on, the next queue they will be joining most likely is the one where they get to read how this "fallen hero" is convicted in a court of law for perjury and perverting the course of justice. Imagine how badly this case will reflect upon him, when before that trial, we may have seen detectives (proper ones) follow missed leads and maybe even discover where Madeleine is? It will not look too good for him will it? Amaral is playing a very dangerous game and I firmly believe this is one gamble too many.

Imagine the damage if Karma plays a hand and suddenly we see leaked reports about just how badly Goncalo Amaral ran this investigation and these leaks suddenly start appearing just before he is due to start his trial by jury in October, how damaging would that be? Natural justice, nothing like it.

If balding Amaral wore a hat, I would be strongly advising him to hang on to it, because I truly think the has not quite hit the fan yet but it soon will and for me it cannot come soon enough! I think it may be at this point Clawsie gets to greet her long awaited tsunami however, it will not be the McCann's who get wet, so I hope that lot can swim!

Amaral

rosie my freind you hit the nail bang on the head

GONC CAN'T GET ENGLISH REPRESENTATION TO SUE THE ENGLISH MEDIA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh bliss -- is this true?

maria wrote:GONC CAN'T GET ENGLISH REPRESENTATION TO SUE THE ENGLISH MEDIA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have read this before, I do hope it is true!

Perhaps Gonc should ask Viv to represent him? (or Tony Bennett?)

Perhaps Gonc should ask Viv to represent him? (or Tony Bennett?)

Could it be that he doesn't enough money to pay for the fees?

are by law and the ethics of their profession prevented from taking cases that they know they cannot win.

So that may be the reason no one will take his case.

dianeh wrote:(Lawyers in Britain) are by law and the ethics of their profession prevented from taking cases that they know they cannot win.

So that may be the reason no one will take his case.

GOOD!