PAEDOPHILE RING WITH LINK TO MADELEINE MCCANN JAILED

Some of the convictions are not based on the person who was abused saying that the convicted person was the person that abused them.

At least one is based on a victim claiming that the convicted person was present because the victim saw them in a dark doorway.

Another can prove he was in Brazil.
Memory is a strange thing and it plays tricks.
I would imagine the last thing you want to do while that is happening to you is to stare into the person's face.

jean wrote:I'm sorry but I'm with Claire on this. These men have been connected to Casa Pia ever since the case has been in the news. Surely when these acts were committed they would have had no need to know each other. Perhaps they attended these orgies at different times, with different people. Of course, we have not had the information that Maria has had in Portugal. But as far as there being men in more powerful positions involved in this, if America could expose ex-president Clinton and his affair, and ex-president Nixon with Watergate, surely there is at least one honest person in government in Portugal that would have seen the corruption and 'blown the whistle'on the ones at the top, or are you saying they are all corrupt??

There is no proof of any orgies.
There is no proof of the locations, of the hotels that were claimed, of the houses that were claimed.
There is weak testimony, parts of which have been disproven.

ETA: The McCanns were associated "from the beginning" with swingers, does that make it true?

there is no proof ?? But they have victims?Who state they were abused by those 7 men .....one standing in the door way but didn't do anything.

That guy standing in the doorway is as much to blame for the abuse of those children as the one stood right there by their side hurting them.

Not one victim can say that they saw a friendly helpful face who come and held them and took them to a safe place.They see the faces of animals.Men who abused them and men who stood by and watched them being abused... encouraging the abuse that went on in that hell hole for years.

Casapia shouldn't be over yet until they have all been dragged out of their hiding places and put up front infront of the adults who can identify them as their abusers.They are too gutless and instead hide protected and scared..The shoes is on the other foot however for those 7 who have been jailed.Because they can now sit in jail and ponder on the sickening abuse they have forced on people.And while they are there they can know that others know their faces now...not just the ones they abused. I hope they rot in hell.

Lets hope there are more arrests to come.There certainly should be.

Clairesy

No one is saying there were not victims, or that these people were not victims. Maria is saying that the ones being convicted are not necessarily the right ones. Some may even be innocent. Some may be guilty.

And that is the issue. With corruption, the innocent can be made to look guilty and the guilty may get away, sometimes too, the guilty are convicted when they otherwise would have gotten away. The problem is that it is the truth that is needed, and those guilty, from the lower 'workers' up to the powerful need to be tried and convicted. And as Maria says no powerful and influential people have been tried.

And as I said there are many reasons why a victim would point the finger at the wrong person, and most of them are not because the victim is a bad person, or a liar. I feel sure that the victims want the people that hurt them behind bars, but it may never happen.

Did you see on one of the other threads the number of hearings. This has gone on so long that it is hard to believe that the ring leaders will ever be found and convicted. Such a slow ponderous court system does not work in favour of the victim, it works in favour of the accused.

No Diane, not even in favour of the acused, in favour of the real criminal. They do not always coincide.

Hi dianne i understand what your saying,and i seen that the court cases for this case are in their hundreds.But i still dont believe a person will point out a wrong person.I think what's happened here is that the victims are fully aware of those familiar guys,the ones who are lower down, always there, always present.. and they know exactly who they are.The others are higher up and either harder to bring down or being protected.

But again i dont believe the victims are mistaken.

There are so many animals n this scandal who abused kids ...some of them,most of them probably...have not yet been identified and charged,i doubt they ever will be.the system seems to have found a group who are guilty,charged them, jailed them and is now willing to let the rest go free.

Its sad really,because for each and everyone of those others who walk free is another victim. :(

Yes Clairesy, people do point out wrong persons. It happens quite often even if it's most likely not on purpose. Probably caused by pressure and suggestions by the PJ. And of course the time that's passed since it's happened.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending those repulsive people, nor disbelieving the victims, but I've said it before and I'll say it again: I have my doubts about (some of) these convictions.
I do hope we'll get to know how the Judge is going to explain a couple of things, like about rejecting that alibi for instance.

maria wrote:Since the very beginning here, I have been telling you to be cautious with emotional accusations or adherence to prosecutors/PJ accusations. There isn't ONE single proof, physical, palpable proof connecting the crimes with any one of these accused and even the ones that, during instruction, where illibated. The accused never met before being jailed and that is proved. The 'places' where the crimes are said to have been committed have not been properly identified, even the confessed 'agent' Bibi could not identify properly. There were no indices collected at the arguidos houses, offices, computersw, nothing seized for investigation, not even mobiles. We know these methods very well from other cases, don't we?

No, there is no connection between these people and Madeleine, as there is no connection between these people full stop.

Maria I have been going over old stuff here and just wish to clarify something here for your benefit and for those whose first language is not English.
When the Press or others refer to a "ring" of paedophiles it does not necessarily mean that those involved do know each other. More often than not they are careful NOT to know each other. They act independently - but to the organisers they can be described as being in a group or a "ring".

I know what 'ring' means. Thanks.

They don't act independently if they are in a ring; perhaps the press is being too quick to call them a "ring" before it's proven they are all involved but actually if they really are a "ring" by definition they do in fact work as teams and work together.

bluj1515 wrote:They don't act independently if they are in a ring; perhaps the press is being too quick to call them a "ring" before it's proven they are all involved but actually if they really are a "ring" by definition they do in fact work as teams and work together.

I agree with you Blue. It is a provocative headline for the Press, one that captures attention. But it may well be an incorrect description. I didn´t wish to appear too pedantic however. I merely wanted to clarify something that Maria had emphasised, namely the apparent lack of contact between those paedophiles involved.