Brian Ladd

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well im baffled by that,imo if there is a partial match then then their is a partial match.Im not following you diane.Was Madeleine's dna found in the bag of items?It says that although it wasn't an exact match it did link to madeleine.So what does that mean???Why say that if it is totally irrelevant to madeleine.If they came to my house and tested items they would find no match at all.So how come they find a partial match at its no good?Either it shows what could be Madeleine's dna or it doesn't.If it suggests that the dna could be that of Madeleine then imo thats god. I haven't said the dna is definitely Madeleine I have said that there is a partial match.I suggested that the reason there was a partial match was maybe because she had either had contact with the items or someone who as had contact with the items also had contact with madeleine. The other article tells how the hair could also of been Madeleine.

Basically ...is there a partial match of dna in that bag that belongs to every single person on this planet???Or not.Because im under the understanding that dna is our own unique set of cells or whatever that can be tested to distinguish one person frm another if need be. How can they say that the dna is a partial match to madeleine.It either is her or it isn't.Im confused by that,call me dull if you wanna but i aint got a clue how they can say the hair and body fluids on that jacket and jeans links to Madeleine's dna yet people are saying it doesn't mean a thing??Surly it suggests more tests or investigating needs to be done to find out why her dna was found in the bag.Or rather why a partial link to her was found there.

EDIT: Please note that i am not at all sure that my analogy below is correct, so I will leave it, but take it with a pinch of salt - just in case!

I dont fully understand it either Clairesy, but when i dont understand things I try and put them into a form that I can understand. I make pictures in my head of real rather than abstract things

The way I look at it is that if a person has, say, 8 special features that collectively absolutely identify them:


Shall we say:

1) blue eyes
2) webbed toes
3) blond hair
4) gappy teeth
5) blood group A
6) long bones
7) birth mark on the face.
8) pin toes


Now let's pretend there is only one person in the world who has all these features (they are not very good examples really). Then if the test shows up, say,
!, 2, and 7, it could be the person, but there is not enough information to be certain, because thousands of other people have the same criteria. To be sure the full 8 criteria must show up


Hmm, have probably confused people more than helped them with this bit of nonsence!!!


EDIT: I am NOT sure that my analogy above is correct, so please take it with a pinch of salt - just in case! I do not wish to start a myth.

thanks saide lol, you have explained it.So the dna in the bag shows up certain parts of dna that madleine shares with the person who owns the items then........sort of like a puzzle then isn't it,you cant get a clear picture unless you have all the pieces to show you whats actually hidden there
.Surly though they had a lot dna there??there was congealed skin hair body fluids etc.The clothes sound bogging.

so basically then we all share the exact same components which make up a dna sample although in different order?LOl im thick as 2 short planks where the workings of dna is concerned.

So its like a lottery then,there are only 10 numbers.1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10.But you can make up billions of unique numbers and combinations with them??Hmmm not sure although i think know what you mean.

What is confusing me though is why they say it is a link to madeleine.Because if thats true then it is a link to everyone not just madeleine? Why would they test the items and then relate it to madeleine?Have there been anymore said about this bag because i cant understand for the life of me why they would do such a thing.

Clairesy

Take no notice of what I said. It's the blind leading the blind, here!
I suggest you wait for dianeh or AlexG, or someone who really understands it, to explain it.

Was trying to be helpful, but am not at all sure that my analogy is correct! So am going to put a note to that effect on my previous post. Don't want to start a myth!

Claire

You are right about we all share the same DNA but in different orders or patterns, that is how we get our unique DNA. Every persons nuclear DNA is unique (although identical twins may have identical DNA, and siblings may have very similar although not identical DNA). Mitochondrial DNA (which is from the cell wall) is inherited from mothers and is passed down directly from mother to child, it doesnt change. You have the same MDNA as your mother and your daughter (or son if you had one) has the same MDNA as well.

The point with the bag of clothes and Madeleine's DNA is that there did appear to be reasonable amounts of material for DNA profiling and so a complete profile should have been done. And if thats the case then they should be able to say with certainty that it either is or is not Madeleine's DNA. Saying it partially matches is no match at all. My DNA, and yours would also partially match to Madeleine's DNA.

Now if the sample was very small, or mixed with other DNA (like from the car), then a partial match means that there is a possibility that it is Madeleine's DNA, but of course there is also an equal chance that it is not Madeleine's DNA. As for the car, since Madeleine shares characteristics with both her parents and her siblings, it is much more likely that any DNA characteristics which were found that matched Madeleine's DNA were most likely not the result of Madeleine having been in the car, but that her mother, father or siblings were in the car. We know that they were all in the car and that personal possessions belonging to all of them, and including Madeleine's clothes, toys etc were all carried in the car. MDNA also was used on the car, and it proved that Kate or her offspring were in the car. It cannot rule out Madeleine having been in the car, but this is where reality sets in, and we know that Kate and the kids were in the car, so the MDNA would in all probability came from them.

Another thing is that it is much easier to determine Mitochondrial DNA than nuclear DNA. Any hair without a root ball can be used to determine MDNA. So it should have been possible to say without any uncertainty that the bag of clothes contained MDNA from Kate's maternal line. This wasnt the case, so it wasnt Madeleine's DNA.

I never understood why the bag of clothes was even mentioned in the press, when a partial match in those circumstances almost certainly proves that it is not Madeleine's DNA, considering that there is no MDNA confirming a link, and that there seems to have been ample material for forensics to take place.

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hi diane,
Thanks for the explaination, i got that earlier thankfully lol,im not too good with the workings of dna as you can see.but i understand that much of it now so.....although i cant go to much into it or i confuse myself again lol.

Wouldn't it be possible though for them to try and match up the partial match in the bag to partial matches int he car etc and come to a conclusion or not? Or is that not possible because both dna tests are not directly linked to madeleine.

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Claire,

No point in trying to compare the DNA from the bag to the DNA from the car. The DNA in the bag is not Madeleine's, nor from any of her family. Even if both partial matches were the result of small and poor samples, it still would not show anything because the sample from the car was a mixture of at least 3 different DNA profiles, so you wouldnt know whose DNA profile was matching to the profile from the bag.

Alex

I have only a basic understanding of this. I studied genetics years ago, and have since done some study of anatomy, and that includes DNA and cells (but decided it wasnt for me so didnt continue with it). Even since I have studied, the genome has been decoded further, and advances made in technologies but the basics havent changed. Some other posters on other forums have very good understanding and are able to take individual samples and discuss those, whereas I rely on the summaries. Also having a good grasp of statistics helps, and yes, I have also studied that at a teriary level. That is why I find Bennett's quoting of statistics to be such a crock.

This was recently posted on the Brian Ladd site. It is information about the nanny the McCanns had to look after their children at home. Have posted this because I haven't read this anywhere before and I think it makes very interesting reading as to the welfare and the happiness of the McCann children, especially Madeleine .......

Amanda Jane Coxon - got to know Kate & Gerry in yr 2000, worked as a cleaner in their previous house once a week, then when Madeleine was born Kate asked her to look after MM twice a week when Kate returned to work part time, dropping MM off at Amanda’s house & picking her up later.
K & G moved to Amsterdam for 1yr & on them returning K was pregnant with the twins & when born Feb 2006 Amanda looked after them too.
After K & G’s return from Portugal became very close with them.
Amanda said she "had a good relationship with Madeleine, I would describe her as full of fun, intelligent for her age and very active. She is a very happy girl and the last time I saw her, she was already capable of maintaining a conversation. She clearly understood the instructions given to her and was a good listener.
I would say that Madeleine is a very healthy girl and I never noticed any changes in behaviour. I would not describe her as a hyperactive child. I do not know of any problem related to sleeping, but I was rarely present when she went to bed. Kate and Gerry never mentioned having any type of problem with Madeleine.
She was well behaved, never caused her parents any problems and apparently always understood what she was told. The parents never looked tired of taking care of Madeleine. Madeleine was a very well behaved and lively child.
Kate and Gerry and the children are a happy family who enjoy having fun together. There are no words to describe what happened last year and they do not deserve to have been treated in the way they have been, by the community and by the press. They are two decent and hardworking people who are devoted to their children."

According to the phone usage around 3rd & 4th May 2007, I believe Amanda was 1 of the 1st people that Kate contacted.

Thanks, Jean - had not seen this before - it is very interesting to have what I believed confirmed - that Kate and Gerry were doting parents to Madeleine and the twins and that Madeleine was a lively, happy child.

Latest from Brian Ladd on Madeleine...



"underground, Madeline (Madeleine McCann I believe) is still at Robert Murat home, 427 trust??"

Another confusing and conflicting dream about this case, I'm hoping is she's still here, she's safe (it is possible)

What is going on with Brian? Now, he thinks she still alive or should I say again? He keeps changing his mind. Not sure what to think.

Is he STILL saying she's at Murat's home? No, sorry, not buying it.

Im not buying it either.

That's not to say she was NEVER at Murat's home, it can't be ruled out, but she is not STILL there after all this time.

I am in two minds about Brian at the moment.
Firstly she is alive and needs finding or she will suffocate?
Then he announces she is dead and he had been wrong all along.
Now she is alive again, and Murat once again has the finger pointed at him???
Cant help but think that Brian has been 'got at'...
Just my thoughts.

Peaceful, you are being kind to him. My feelings about what he is doing and saying are not quite as forgiving. And I dont think he was 'got at', rather the opposite in fact, his hit rate was down.

Yeh suppose I am being generous again. LOL

"Jacki Mari knows how to find Madeleine, Brian - 217"



Below is what Jacki mari wrote about Madeleine, might be worth contacting her.

Mr. & Mrs. McCann - Missing Maddie's parents
http://www.jackimari.com/CelebrityProfilesArchive.htm


McCann Impressions 9-25-07

Educated, doctors both, yet, they left their twins and Maddie alone in a hotel room while they went to a bar and to dinner with friends! These are not the actions of loving and devoted parents or even frightened parents. Mrs. McCann screamed "they" took her. This "they" has not been figured out, but my PsychcSense says she or both docs knew it was going to happen and might know "who" the "they" are and the "they" may be linked with terrorism. Were the parents approached to work with terrorists as were other docs who may have been or were coerced into cooperating with the Al-Qaida? In letting Maddie go, it's possible that the parents thought they were protecting the twins. I did see and published what I saw - Maddie being taken by a woman to a plain house with shutters, and Maddie had had her hair cut. The woman was feeding the child and

Maddie did not look frightened, as if she knew the woman. Perhaps the parents know the woman.

My PsychSense says that the blood reported to be in the trunk of a rented car [rented by the parents] was just a little too convenient, especially of more than 24 days of Maddie already missing.

* * *


Timeline: Monday, August 13, 2007 10 AM CDST
Recent reports are that the Madeleine McCann girl may be dead. My impression is that she may not be. However, if she is deceased now, I feel that it would be a recent issue. I still see her in the red house, eating breakfast, and she is with someone that may let her surface much later down the road, when it serves their purpose. Then the child may be found wandering with different colour hair. She may appear to be hungry and confused.

At times is seems that she may be in some kind of pre-arranged or protective custody [like government?], and this sure flies in the face of what we have been led to believe so far.

Whatever blood they may have found may well have been "planted." This entire issue may be political.

"You can live with a truth, or die with a lie." Quote from Jacki Mari 2005

last dream..

real Brain - EC, thet have the secrets, 28-3-07, lucia santon saliut, francisco marto Madeleine is still there, blood tears, Kate goto fatma, priest knows how to get M"
[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Our_Lady_of_F%C3%A1tima]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Our_Lady_of_F%C3%A1tima[/url]
kristine hamlett talk about priest to...

It is here that it is to write to put brian's felt and mattew?