Claudia is at it again

I took this from her "Proud of the PJ" blog...posted today. Portugal giving out leaks again...their timing is perfect!

Sábado, 19 de Julho de 2008
Coincidencies...
From Astro - translation of today's Correio da Manhã

Doctor friends of the McCanns spoke to the English police

Payne suspected of paedophilia

Twelve days after Maddie disappeared, a couple revealed the strange behaviour of one of the group's members. Testimonies only reached the Judiciária in January this year

David Payne, one of the McCanns' friends that were on holidays in the Algarve on the 3rd of May last year, when Madeleine disappeared, was suspected of paedophile behaviours.
The accusations were brought by a couple of friends that spent their holidays with part of the group in the summer of 2005 – themselves also English doctors. Twelve days after the British girl disappeared, Katherina and Arul could no longer keep the secret that had bothered them for two years and went to the police to make a statement. They revealed two conversations between Dave and Gerry, during which both revealed suspicious behaviour and indiciated sex with minors.

According to what CM was able to establish, the depositions were given on the 16th of May. But they only entered the process in January 2008 and are included in the 13th volume of the process files. At that point in time, Kate and Gerry were already arguidos, the rogatory letters had already been issued and the English, including Dave, showed their reluctance in returning to Portugal.

Touching the nipple

Katherina made a statement that was eight pages long. She reported holidays in Mallorca with several English [people], including the McCanns and the Paynes. Two incidents left her with serious doubts about the friends' behaviour and lead her to create suspicions that were never confirmed.

The first one happened on a night when Gerry and Dave were talking about Maddie. Katherina does not know what they were saying but she remembers that Dave sucked on his fingers, pushing them into the mouth and pulling them out again, while his other hand traced a circle around the nipple, with a circular movement over the clothes. "That was done in a provocative manner", recalls Katherina, who says that it stuck to her memory.

Days later, the scene repeated itself. The doctor saw Dave making the same gestures again, while he talked about his own daughter. Scared, Katherina said nothing about the incident. But she took special caution, asking her husband never to let the doctor come close to the bathroom when her daughter was having a bath.

Arul went to the police to tell the same story. Katherina's companion confirmed the gestures that were made by Dave during the conversation with Gerry but asserted that he wasn't aware that they were talking about Maddie. He did find the behaviour in extremely bad taste, but didn't see it being repeated.

The incident ended up forgotten in his memory and it was only the disappearance of Madeleine, who had also been with them on the Mallorca vacation, that revived it.

During the deposition, Katherina went even further and said she had associated the gestures to someone who likes to watch child pornography. "I remember thinking whether he looked at the girls in a different manner", she concluded.

Friends from school days

Arul and Kate were friends from their school days. They have known each other for approximately 20 years and that was the motive that led the couple to accompany the McCanns on their holidays to Mallorca. Arul and Katherina did not know Fiona and Dave and they only met again once, during a dinner that gathered several couples. When Maddie disappeared from the Ocean Club, Katherina remembered the incident in Mallorca. And she immediately tried to verify whether Dave had again been accompanying the McCann couple, as the suspicions about his behaviour still stood. In the deposition that was made to the English police, Katherina says she decided to give a statement when she saw the tv images. Dave was among the same holiday group.

Doubts in the case

Irishman not heard – An Irishman who was spending holidays in Praia da Luz also went to the English police to report that on the night of the 3rd of May he saw Gerry carrying Madeleine towards the beach. He was never heard through a rogatory letter.

Sending delayed – The difference between the date when the deposition was obtained and the time when it was sent is not explained in the process.CM knows that the English authorities did not provide an explanation, either.

Bank account info – The PJ tried to know the bank account situation of every element of the group, in order to search for possible motives for the crime. But the English answers were laconic and did not help the investigation.

Life stories – The life stories of Gerry and Kate McCann remain unknown. The PJ tried to verify whether Maddie's mother suffered from depression but never received her clinical records, because the judge did not allow it.

source: Correio da Manhã 19.07.2008, paper edition

There is an article today, on Público newspaper saying that the British Police does not want the names of several British paedophiles, who were investigated when Madeleine 'vanished', made public. And then this article in Correio da Manhã. Is it a coincidence? What do you think?
Publicada por Cláudia em 7/19/2008 01:36:00 PM

So are they now going to judge David Payne on the basis of this rumoured, unsubstantiated story? Whoever is leaking information should stop immediately. We are destroying people's lives with these innuendos - I can't believe anyone would protect a pedophile - it does NOT make sense.

But, mum I guess Vile's site is really shut down if Clawsie is posting on her PJ blog....

That would be the answer to my question earlier, 'wos 'appenin'? So this is all coming out in the Portuguese press today? does anyone else smell the foul hand of lardy boy?

British do not want to reveal identity of referenced by paedophilia in Algarve
19.07.2008 - 09h37 Paula Torres de Carvalho
The British police want to keep confidential the names of a list of British citizens referenced with paedophile practice residents in the Algarve, which were identified during the investigation of the case Maddie. This list is part of the process of disappearance of Madeleine McCann whose close vai be announced next Monday.

Maintaining the confidentiality of this list is one of the police claims English, with the argument that the disclosure of the identities of the individuals mentioned in this list would be an intrusion of privacy in the forum.

On Monday, the Attorney General's Office vai disclose the circular end of the prosecutor decides that the closing of the case Maddie, for lack of evidence to support any prosecution. With this order, Kate and Gerry McCann (parents of Madeleine) and also the English citizen Robert Murat, are no longer defendants.

The fact that the process is now closed, not prevent it can be reopened at any time in the future. However, this would only arise if new evidence that would invalidate the arguments raised by the public prosecutor, as established by Article 279. Of the Code of Criminal Procedure (CPP).

The decision of closing may still be subject to appeal. Only at the end of the period for appeal, the case will be open to public consultation.

Amaral in book

Many of the details of the investigation may however be known before, by reading a book written by the inspector of the Judicial Police (PJ) who led the research, Gonçalo Amaral, and that will be presented in the next day 24 in Lisbon.

At least, is what the author promises, which was ultimately dismissed the research as a result of statements deemed offensive to the British police.

With the opening of the process, you can clarify doubts, know what steps were taken, what level of participation of British police in the investigation and know the reasons why the police and prosecutors to be Murat McCann and the couple as suspects. But is also possible to detect inconsistencies and contradictions in research and falsehoods that were publicly disclosed.

The questions arise is also now about the fate of Paulo Rebelo, coordinator of the inspector PJ which replaced Gonçalo Amaral in the investigation of the case Maddie, and to whom they were deposited all hope of success.

Paulo Rebelo settled in at Portimão and surrounding themselves with the best researchers in several areas of the PJ. The effort has proved unsuccessful. Rebelo was unable to repair some of the mistakes made in the initial stages of research. It also failed to advance to new tracks.

In the case finished, Rebelo now hopes that the direction of PJ decides quickly replace it in the direction of the department and make it again, in Lisbon, a place commensurate with its curriculum.

Mum21 wrote:I took this from her "Proud of the PJ" blog...posted today. Portugal giving out leaks again...their timing is perfect!

Sábado, 19 de Julho de 2008
Coincidencies...
From Astro - translation of today's Correio da Manhã

Doctor friends of the McCanns spoke to the English police

Payne suspected of paedophilia

Twelve days after Maddie disappeared, a couple revealed the strange behaviour of one of the group's members. Testimonies only reached the Judiciária in January this year

David Payne, one of the McCanns' friends that were on holidays in the Algarve on the 3rd of May last year, when Madeleine disappeared, was suspected of paedophile behaviours.
The accusations were brought by a couple of friends that spent their holidays with part of the group in the summer of 2005 – themselves also English doctors. Twelve days after the British girl disappeared, Katherina and Arul could no longer keep the secret that had bothered them for two years and went to the police to make a statement. They revealed two conversations between Dave and Gerry, during which both revealed suspicious behaviour and indiciated sex with minors.

According to what CM was able to establish, the depositions were given on the 16th of May. But they only entered the process in January 2008 and are included in the 13th volume of the process files. At that point in time, Kate and Gerry were already arguidos, the rogatory letters had already been issued and the English, including Dave, showed their reluctance in returning to Portugal.

Touching the nipple

Katherina made a statement that was eight pages long. She reported holidays in Mallorca with several English [people], including the McCanns and the Paynes. Two incidents left her with serious doubts about the friends' behaviour and lead her to create suspicions that were never confirmed.

The first one happened on a night when Gerry and Dave were talking about Maddie. Katherina does not know what they were saying but she remembers that Dave sucked on his fingers, pushing them into the mouth and pulling them out again, while his other hand traced a circle around the nipple, with a circular movement over the clothes. "That was done in a provocative manner", recalls Katherina, who says that it stuck to her memory.

Days later, the scene repeated itself. The doctor saw Dave making the same gestures again, while he talked about his own daughter. Scared, Katherina said nothing about the incident. But she took special caution, asking her husband never to let the doctor come close to the bathroom when her daughter was having a bath.

Arul went to the police to tell the same story. Katherina's companion confirmed the gestures that were made by Dave during the conversation with Gerry but asserted that he wasn't aware that they were talking about Maddie. He did find the behaviour in extremely bad taste, but didn't see it being repeated.

The incident ended up forgotten in his memory and it was only the disappearance of Madeleine, who had also been with them on the Mallorca vacation, that revived it.

During the deposition, Katherina went even further and said she had associated the gestures to someone who likes to watch child pornography. "I remember thinking whether he looked at the girls in a different manner", she concluded.

Friends from school days

Arul and Kate were friends from their school days. They have known each other for approximately 20 years and that was the motive that led the couple to accompany the McCanns on their holidays to Mallorca. Arul and Katherina did not know Fiona and Dave and they only met again once, during a dinner that gathered several couples. When Maddie disappeared from the Ocean Club, Katherina remembered the incident in Mallorca. And she immediately tried to verify whether Dave had again been accompanying the McCann couple, as the suspicions about his behaviour still stood. In the deposition that was made to the English police, Katherina says she decided to give a statement when she saw the tv images. Dave was among the same holiday group.

Doubts in the case

Irishman not heard – An Irishman who was spending holidays in Praia da Luz also went to the English police to report that on the night of the 3rd of May he saw Gerry carrying Madeleine towards the beach. He was never heard through a rogatory letter.

Sending delayed – The difference between the date when the deposition was obtained and the time when it was sent is not explained in the process.CM knows that the English authorities did not provide an explanation, either.

Bank account info – The PJ tried to know the bank account situation of every element of the group, in order to search for possible motives for the crime. But the English answers were laconic and did not help the investigation.

Life stories – The life stories of Gerry and Kate McCann remain unknown. The PJ tried to verify whether Maddie's mother suffered from depression but never received her clinical records, because the judge did not allow it.

source: Correio da Manhã 19.07.2008, paper edition

There is an article today, on Público newspaper saying that the British Police does not want the names of several British paedophiles, who were investigated when Madeleine 'vanished', made public. And then this article in Correio da Manhã. Is it a coincidence? What do you think?
Publicada por Cláudia em 7/19/2008 01:36:00 PM

Having a hard time trying to translate this to make any sense at all, this is the story I referred to in another post which I was hopefully waiting for a better translation in our press.

I guess the first thing that strikes me is that it is not mentioned on SKY or any of the news channels? Has anyone else seen it anywhere? I immediately looked to the BBC and Sky and not an inkling, if this carried any kind of credence would it not be massive breaking news in this country?

Or are the press and TV guarded because of any possible future libel lawsuit?

Anyway will have an attempt at giving my opinion here, for what it is worth. I'll do it bullet points easier to digest I think.

• If this was reported to the Leistershire police, I would assume that they would have investigated such a serious allegation? Especially in a case of a missing child in such a high profile case?
  
• It is inconceivable to think they would not have acted, perhaps they have investigated and found these allegations to be wholly unsubstantiated?
  
• If this Katherina and Arul were so concerned why did they wait 2 years to report it and why did Arul forget about it?
  
• Madeleine would only have been around a year old then.
  
• How did this Katherina know they were talking about Madeleine, if she did not know what they were saying?
  
• Then the report said that she saw Dave making the same gesture, while talking about his own daughter. Again how did she know he was talking about his own daughter?
  
• Why does she think this is provocative gesture?
  
• It is unclear whose nipple was? hers? Or his own? if it was his own, this could be a subconscious gesture, the same way a lot of men seem to have strange habits, of sitting with their hands protecting their privates and how many times have you seen a man picking his nose at traffic lights?
  
• I would be interested in seeing a proper translation to see if something has been deliberately change or left out here to make this look like something it obviously isn't!
  
• Why did she say to her husband "never let Dave come close to the bathroom while their daughter was in the bath? was he always around at bath time? Sounds very odd to me and sounds like it has been put in the paper, because of the fact that Payne checked in on Kate after the tennis match, another subliminal suggestion, the Portuguese press are not very good at it though!
  
• This Katherina seems to have assumed a lot, while her husband a different story altogether, yet they were both present at the same time? Yet the this paper has said they told the same story, when it is obvious they are not telling the same story.
  
• Katherina has made assumptions, while Arul said he did not hear them talking about Madeleine, but thought they were in bad taste? What was in bad taste? He has just said that he didn't hear anything, so he has no idea what they were talking about!
  
• The paper then goes on to say that Katherina said "Katherina went even further and said she had associated the gestures to someone who likes to watch child pornography."
  
• Maybe I know little or nothing about child pornography, but from David Payne sticking his fingers in his mouth she deduces he is someone who likes to watch child pornography?
  
• seems a complete load of twaddle to me. Perhaps Katherina, should go and get a check up somewhere? Is she jealous of Kate McCann's previous relationship with her husband?
  
• As for the life stories of Kate and Gerry McCann, we have been down this route before seems the paper is padding out an otherwise factless, baseless story. Can the Portuguese press and the PC Plod's get it into their heads that despite every journo in the world and every pseudo armchair internet detective in the world digging into this unfortunate couple's past, not one person has been able to come up with anything detrimental about them, (that is if you ignore the hotlips Kate at university nonsense)
  
• I note that the paper has changed the witness story of the Irishman to now saying it was Gerry who was taking Madeleine towards the marina! I distinctly remembering this witness saying he did not recognise the man he thought he saw!

My verdict? Another non story, vicious leak to smear the McCann's and their friends. How coincidental it is released now. Portugal's police have been found wanting and have messed this case up from the outset with an amazing catalogue of errors, instead of admitting this and moving on and trying to ensure they never again make these errors, they try and save face with their vicious lies and they do not care whose life they ruin in the process.

If Murat had a case, then David Payne has an even stronger case against this paper and I hope he sues their nasty vindictive backsides off and I hope he does not settle out of court. Take them all the way David.

This is yet another shameless attempt to get Amaral and the other PJs off of the hook. I expected something like it and I expect a lot more of it.

I don't think the British press will touch a story like this one. It is too far fetched...and too libellous. In my opinion this is a planned attack by the PJ, timed to coincide with revelations of what is to happen with the case.
I may be wrong, but I don't think I am. I believe this is just the start...and there is more to follow.

This paper may like to investigate the PJ's lax attitude to the paedophile they had living in their country called Oliver Shanti, instead of trying to cause further unnecessary pain and suffering.

Oliver Shanti by the way looks remarkably like the man Gail Cooper gave a description of! When she was confronted with a photograph of the man the newspapers tracked down, she was startled and said this could be the man.

Look how similar they actually are, could Gail Cooper's saw be Oliver Shanti? If it is then this would make him present in Praia Da Luz around the time that Madeleine was abducted.

Why can't this paper run with this instead? You never know, perhaps they may end up helping instead of hindering!






And Who Is In this Apparatus? Someone with hair like Shanti's?

Rosiepops wrote:This paper may like to investigate the PJ's lax attitude to the paedophile they had living in their country called Oliver Shanti, instead of trying to cause further unnecessary pain and suffering.

Oliver Shanti by the way looks remarkably like the man Gail Cooper gave a description of! When she was confronted with a photograph of the man the newspapers tracked down, she was startled and said this could be the man.

Look how similar they actually are, could Gail Cooper's saw be Oliver Shanti? If it is then this would make him present in Praia Da Luz around the time that Madeleine was abducted.

Why can't this paper run with this instead? You never know, perhaps they may end up helping instead of hindering!

Gail Cooper's Man (Left) Press tracked Down Lookalike Joaquim Agostinho (right)

3rd Picture Is OLIVER SHANTI (Paedophile arrested in Portugal last week)

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/06/29/europe/EU-GEN-Portugal-Pedophile-Suspect.php
Here is the link to the arrest, Ulrich Schulz is his real name

You are probably right, they have just got their fingers burned by printing stuff about Murat! I hope that Payne sues this paper. I

It seems the vilettes have taken refuge in Claudia's blog. I knew they would not be able to stand staying hidden for long.
Of course one of the first to arrive was none other the infamous docrot.
I motion that anything we wish to say about what is written on that nasty excuse for a blog...we do here in the private section of the forum. Let them think we are ignoring them....they will hate that.

Don't worry, they'll soon run out of places to hide, once the truth comes out.


(While I was writing that, your avatar just winked at me! Scared the flipping heck out of me, I never noticed it do that before!)

Same old, same old, then - anxious to see what her reaction will be tomorrow.

Yes, Mum, I agree; let us keep this on private threads, for the reasons you give. Otherwise it all starts up again. Better that they think we're ignoring them -- by far.

Just one of my many amateur attempts at making animations.

I also cannot wait for tomorrow to arrive. I believe they predict it to be announced at noon.

I just read some of the comments on Claudias site. I wish I hadn't. Seems that there is the taste of things to come. Us pro's dont care about Madeleine, we just worship the parents. We have won but we dont care that Madeleine has lost. That makes me so so angry. I've always kept Madeleine to the forefromt of my mind. I would like to think that Madeleine loves her parents as they love her and no way would she agree with how her parents are being treated by all those baying for their blood. It's our support that will help keep her disappearence high profile which I'm sure will be of great help in speeding up finding her. When she is found there will be more candles, prayers, fireworks and love apparent from all of us. The reaction to a possible release from arguido status tommorrow is to critisise the pro's and close blogs in fear. If the result tommorrow is no arguido staus change the only thing that would concern me is that Madeleine will lose out and her parents will remain with their hands tied to help find her and they will not be able to clear their names. When the news came through about the 81 peices of info I was deflated, not because the antis were whooping about how the McCanns had lost, but because i felt really sad and close to tears that all the posts i was reading were mainly anti's treating this as some sort of competition forgetting about the negative nature of little information being revealed effectng the search for Madeleine. How dare they say I dont care about Madeleine. It should not surprise me though as we are witnessing the most cynical of humans ever and all because they cant forgive their parents for telling them Santa clause was real and then finding out he wasn't.

Do these anti's ever wonder how their treatment of Kate and Gerry effect the twins. The hate directed at this family will rub off on the twins.

Courage mate, courage. WE know we care about Madeleine, but you can't support her without supporting Kate and Gerry. The anti's can't get that into their thick skulls. Don't ever let them get to you by saying you don't care about Madeleine, it's their last hurrah.

None of us would have spent so much of our time talking about this little girl, web sleuthing and trying to defend her parents, if we didnt care for her.

I dont support the McCanns because of Madeleine, I do it because I beleive they are innocent, and not just because they are entitled to that presumption under law. And I want justice for Madeleine, but I want the person who took her to be punished, not innocent people who the PJ have wrongly implicated. Justice will only be served by the guilty party being caught and punished.

And Madeleine's best hope is her parents. It is their constant battle to have people looking for her, to keep her name alive, to keep us interested, that will help for Madeleine to be found. If Madeleine's parents were different people, she would have just passed the way of the thousands of other little people that go missing each year that are never found.

And mostly, I care because it breaks my heart to think of that beautiful little girl being taken from her parents, scared, lonely and maybe hurting. She deserves a chance at a normal life with her family, and until she is home again, I and the rest of us on here, will never forget her.

ModNrodder wrote:I just read some of the comments on Claudias site. I wish I hadn't. Seems that there is the taste of things to come. Us pro's dont care about Madeleine, we just worship the parents. We have won but we dont care that Madeleine has lost. That makes me so so angry. I've always kept Madeleine to the forefromt of my mind. I would like to think that Madeleine loves her parents as they love her and no way would she agree with how her parents are being treated by all those baying for their blood. It's our support that will help keep her disappearence high profile which I'm sure will be of great help in speeding up finding her. When she is found there will be more candles, prayers, fireworks and love apparent from all of us. The reaction to a possible release from arguido status tommorrow is to critisise the pro's and close blogs in fear. If the result tommorrow is no arguido staus change the only thing that would concern me is that Madeleine will lose out and her parents will remain with their hands tied to help find her and they will not be able to clear their names. When the news came through about the 81 peices of info I was deflated, not because the antis were whooping about how the McCanns had lost, but because i felt really sad and close to tears that all the posts i was reading were mainly anti's treating this as some sort of competition forgetting about the negative nature of little information being revealed effectng the search for Madeleine. How dare they say I dont care about Madeleine. It should not surprise me though as we are witnessing the most cynical of humans ever and all because they cant forgive their parents for telling them Santa clause was real and then finding out he wasn't.

Do these anti's ever wonder how their treatment of Kate and Gerry effect the twins. The hate directed at this family will rub off on the twins.

Mod,
they simply do not care about Madeleine, all they care about is hurting her parents in any way that they can and really they are to be pitied for that.
A few of us who posted on the DX were always getting this ridiculous accusation hurled at us, it is like some kind of playground game to them
Like Diane has said, we support the McCann's because we believe them to be innocent and like you so rightly say, we cannot support Madeleine if we do not support her parents, after all it is they who are trying their best to find her.

I don't bother going to read these places, in fact I hadn't read Viles for weeks before it closed and even when I knew it was closing I didn't bother and I feel the same about Clawd's, can't be asked, I read STs usually if there is anything that I should know it is put up there and I can deal with it, but even then my usual reaction is to ignore it completely and I only make the occasional post on Sts.

If the posters are going over to Clawd's then this will not please Vile and hopefully her blog will just soon cease to exist.

My advice to you is just steady as she goes over the next few weeks and do not worry, truth will win out in the end and I do firmly believe Madeleine is alive and will eventually be returned home.

They say be careful what you wish for and this afternoon, I mentioned to Mum21 I would sure like to be a fly on the wall to hear what they had to say about the McCann's being released from arguido status and I guess I got my wish.

I've always believed the McCanns were innocent - I was told on DX that Madeleine's parents weren't acting normal - I told them the way the McCanns had handled themselves would be the way I would HOPE to handle the situation - they had done everything I would do - contact the newspapers to let everyone know that they had a missing child, I would have hired private investigators to find my missing child. I was told by members of the DX anti group that they had never seen anyone as cold as Kate - I replied all they had to do is look in Kate's eyes and see the pain and the suffering she was going and Gerry too.

There is not a night that I have gone to bed and prayed that Madeleine was being looked after and to please let her come home - there is not a morning that I have not prayed that today would be the day she would be found.

When I hear that Kate and Gerry are having to go through the nonsense of the leaks again, I pray that God give them strength. I've written my time on the "Finding Madeleine" blog supporting Kate and Gerry.

It was NEVER, EVER, a competition - it was NEVER, EVER just a story - it was real people and I don't think any of us have forgotten that!

Calcite, I, like you was wishing that I could be a fly on the wall when the news breaks today. But that was yesterday. Today I have read some of the rubbish that we pro McCanns are about to be subjected to and I feel sick. This is the start of more lies and innuendos, rubbish that the anti's can feed on. Now if I feel sick then how are the McCanns and their family feeling?

I believe that the McCanns will stay strong and true, focus only on getting Madeleine back alive and well, but how hard it must be for them, I cannot imagine. My heart goes out to them all.

They can't hurt us...they tried, but failed. Neither can they hurt the McCann's anymore.
Claudia just won't let go...but if only she could see what a laughing stock she is making of herself. She has turned what was a defending the PJ blog into a carbon copy of Viv's vile blog. Her ramblings are childish to the extreme...almost like a spoilt brats tantrum!

I don't think Claudia's blog is going to last long. A few postings in Portuguese and an occasional comment from Zodiak but that is it.....You are right, Mum21 she is like a spoiled child throwing a tantrum - what a brat she is.

vee8 wrote:Don't worry, they'll soon run out of places to hide, once the truth comes out.


(While I was writing that, your avatar just winked at me! Scared the flipping heck out of me, I never noticed it do that before!)

I don't know whios is more 'barking' Vee or me? I havebeen staring at your avatar for ages and I haven't caught it wink, but I must say this has me laughing here.

I think I better take a break from all of this streamlining, i think it is beginning to have an affect on my pysche

PMSL Rosie, Vee is referring to when Mum had the avatar of an Angel

Rosie, I have changed my avatar since Vee posted that. It used to be an angel winking

Mum21