Re: Book Ban Overturned?

by Pedro Silva Wed Oct 20, 2010 9:14 pm

I just say this: to joana morais, GA, all the antis: don´t celebrate this, because this was no victory,

this only gives us more strenght, determination in our mission.

by Tinkerbell43 Thu Oct 21, 2010 5:35 am

I can only reiterate what Kate and Gerry have already said:-

'The motives of those who have tried to convince the world that Madeleine is dead, and who've disgracefully and falsely tried to implicate us in her disappearance, need to be seriously questioned.'

by Tinkerbell43 Thu Oct 21, 2010 6:10 am

I was away all day yesterday so am only just catching up. Thank you so much Maria and Pedro for all your hard work in keeping us updated.

It is a very sad day for Madeleine and the Judge that overturned this decision needs to hang their head in shame. It also shows that corruption and fascism in Portugal is still alive and kicking.

by dianeh Thu Oct 21, 2010 7:23 am

Im very disappointed that the ban has been overturned but it really is no cause for joy for Amaral. My reading of this is that the ban on the book has been overturned because it infringes his right to free speech and opinion. The Appeals court did not look at the possible libel of the book, as it is not relevant at this stage. It is not up to the Appeals court to determine if libel exists, and without a proven libel case, there is no grounds to ban the book, therefore the ban must be overturned. The Judges also condemned the original Judge for the ban, along the same line, in that it was not her place to judge if libel existed, and that is what she did, she pre-judged the libel case. So the Appeals court has ruled the book is not banned but it also is clear that they did not look at any libel/slander issues, as these are done in the libel trial.

If Amaral keeps selling the book and doing interviews, even after the warning of the first court (regardless of the Appeals court overturning the ban) it only increases his guilt as far as libel is concerned, and will increase the penalties if he loses the libel trial.

Now, I must also say I dont agree with the Appeals court, although I do understand their decision. IMO, an injunction is issued to reduce the action that causes a perceived harm, and should err on the side of caution, like an AVO. No good waiting until a woman is dead before issuing an AVO (restraining order), the judge issues the order based on the possibility of a bad outcome. But in this issue of free speech, it seems that the judges do not see any immediate harm or urgent harm from the book, whereas they see a definite harm against Amaral for the loss of his free speech. I havent followed a book libel case here to know if the book would be banned before the trial begins, but I think probably not.

And let me repeat. The Appeals court did not look at the libel within the book at all, so there is no indication here that the trial would go against the McCanns at all. In fact, the #### poor defence that Amaral put up at the injunction hearings points towards the McCanns having a very strong case.

by Pedro Silva Thu Oct 21, 2010 8:08 am

Tinks my friend, you welcome.

by Peaceful1 Thu Oct 21, 2010 9:47 am

Diane, I quite agree with you. The Court in this instance had no choice..BUT like you say, once the libel trial starts and amaral is found guilty, he will be wishing he had never wrote that book and that the ban had stayed in place!
My guess is that the lifting of the ban, will in the long term be amarals worst nightmare!

by Chicane Thu Oct 21, 2010 10:07 am

Thanks dianeh ...

After the initially shock of this outcome I agree in your description how the Court has weighted Amaral's appeal. It is all about his freedom of speech, not WHAT he is saying, because in the end it will be proven to be libel.

by Peaceful1 Thu Oct 21, 2010 11:54 am

Chicane wrote:Thanks dianeh ...

After the initially shock of this outcome I agree in your description how the Court has weighted Amaral's appeal. It is all about his freedom of speech, not WHAT he is saying, because in the end it will be proven to be libel.

And wont that be a day to remember? doh

by dianeh Thu Oct 21, 2010 12:27 pm

Maria, Pedro

Any idea when the slow moving wheels of justice in Portugal will run him over?

When is the libel case due to go to trial?

by Chicane Thu Oct 21, 2010 1:25 pm

Peaceful1 wrote:
Chicane wrote:Thanks dianeh ...

After the initially shock of this outcome I agree in your description how the Court has weighted Amaral's appeal. It is all about his freedom of speech, not WHAT he is saying, because in the end it will be proven to be libel.

And wont that be a day to remember?

Yes Peaceful....looking forward to that day

Book Ban Overturned? - Page 2 56938118

Karma is going to bite him in the bum

Book Ban Overturned? - Page 2 Eyes_sight_gif_animation_wallot.ru%20%2824%29

by maria Thu Oct 21, 2010 7:22 pm

I do not, in any way, agree with your understanding of this decision. The book ban, as well as the arrest of the assets, were/are temporary measures in nature, they should remain in place until the libel case is through. That is the spirit of the portuguese law.

What was/is on the table is very well described in the previous sentence: there are two fundamental human rights put in conflict by GA, his own right to free speech and McCanns right to good name. That is the i8ssue, the conflict between the two.

And all in all, no doubt whatsoever that GA is wrecking their good name.

by maria Thu Oct 21, 2010 7:59 pm

Someone in this thread spoke about corruption and fascism. Well, I've always insisted in not discussing politics, I've always tried to maintain this case away from that so dirty war roaring in my country.

But I can't go on ignoring the very evident signs. The report (acórdão) is emminently political, Amaral gave yesterday a phone interrview to TVI where he accuses Gerry of having come back to Portugal expressly to talk to PSD (the social democratic party that was 'sponsoring' his candidacy to local authorities) and as a result the national direction of that party blocked his 'aspirations'. It is Amaral, Cabrita, Morais and all the others who are mixing up justice with politics. And finally, we have a judge who used to work in Évora (so close to Algarve, isn't it?) and moved to Lisbon in the meantime, overturning a civil decision, a judge who actively intervenes against any government act/decision, a judge who goes on strike(???!!!), member of a 'union' whose only aim and role is to undertake action to fight the government.

If you go to Morais blog, you will see a column tittled 'portuguese press monitoring the McCann case', currently the first tittle is 'Sindicato ignora reunião de conselho consultivo'. Clicking there you will get http://www.jornaldamadeira.pt/not2008.php?Seccao=4&id=165280 . this has nothing to do with the case, it is about one more boycot of this 'union' of some meeting. The very same union to which Francisco Bruto da Costa belongs, the judge who thinks that saying 'Madeleine died and her parents hid her body' is just one more daily normal statement that can and probably should be thrown into the 4 winds.

by Catkins Thu Oct 21, 2010 9:24 pm

maria wrote:Someone in this thread spoke about corruption and fascism. Well, I've always insisted in not discussing politics, I've always tried to maintain this case away from that so dirty war roaring in my country.

But I can't go on ignoring the very evident signs. The report (acórdão) is emminently political, Amaral gave yesterday a phone interrview to TVI where he accuses Gerry of having come back to Portugal expressly to talk to PSD (the social democratic party that was 'sponsoring' his candidacy to local authorities) and as a result the national direction of that party blocked his 'aspirations'. It is Amaral, Cabrita, Morais and all the others who are mixing up justice with politics. And finally, we have a judge who used to work in Évora (so close to Algarve, isn't it?) and moved to Lisbon in the meantime, overturning a civil decision, a judge who actively intervenes against any government act/decision, a judge who goes on strike(???!!!), member of a 'union' whose only aim and role is to undertake action to fight the government.

If you go to Morais blog, you will see a column tittled 'portuguese press monitoring the McCann case', currently the first tittle is 'Sindicato ignora reunião de conselho consultivo'. Clicking there you will get http://www.jornaldamadeira.pt/not2008.php?Seccao=4&id=165280 . this has nothing to do with the case, it is about one more boycot of this 'union' of some meeting. The very same union to which Francisco Bruto da Costa belongs, the judge who thinks that saying 'Madeleine died and her parents hid her body' is just one more daily normal statement that can and probably should be thrown into the 4 winds.

Maria do you mind if I sharte this post on PFA and Sky?....I will remove your name if you want..

by Sabot Thu Oct 21, 2010 9:44 pm

Maria. I spent this early morning reading about The Portuguese Carnation Revolution. And it would seem that for all it's hopeful intentions, the same like minded people are still in charge. Not that this is any surprise. And not just in Portugal.

I try not to be contentious, but I cannot see how this whole thing isn't political. To me, they are hanging on by the skin of their teeth, and so they have to support The PJ, right or wrong. Otherwise they will lose their power.

It is just so awful that this includes Judges.

I don't honestly know how this affects you personally, but it must be a teensy bit scary at times. I think that you and Pedro are very brave. People like you will be the instrument of change.

I personally am very offended by the likes of Amaral who think that Justice can be obtained by fear. But then, I don't have to worry about the possible consequences.

Have good heart. All things will come to good.

by maria Thu Oct 21, 2010 9:56 pm

Sabot

Feel free to copy any of my posts anywhere, and please put my name on them, I fully take responsibilty for what I say or do.

About politics etc. Yes, it is becoming very scary, even worse than during the fascist times. I know, because I was there, I fought against it and am proud of it. But now, we live in 'democracy', we have elections, so... I think we are entering an era of 'organized corruption', I can't explain the difference to 'organized crime', but there is, as it is wider, much wider, accomodating it.

by Sabot Thu Oct 21, 2010 10:35 pm

maria wrote:Sabot

Feel free to copy any of my posts anywhere, and please put my name on them, I fully take responsibilty for what I say or do.

About politics etc. Yes, it is becoming very scary, even worse than during the fascist times. I know, because I was there, I fought against it and am proud of it. But now, we live in 'democracy', we have elections, so... I think we are entering an era of 'organized corruption', I can't explain the difference to 'organized crime', but there is, as it is wider, much wider, accomodating it.

Thank you, Maria. I will do so.

Yes, I do understand the difference. It isn't actually Crime, but more an invasion of free thinking, or a determination to control for personal power through fear. It is insidious and covert. I don't even know if it is possible to defeat this. I only know that we have to try.

I have had some controversial views on certain subjects relating to Britain, on which I did voice my thoughts, and was smartly warned off. I went away and thought about it, and then came back with all proverbial guns blazing.
I will not be told of what I must think. But I was a bit more careful after that. As it happens, I have since been proved right. Although most ordinary Brits have no real idea of what happened.

It isn't just Portugal. It is a breed of person that truly believes it has the right. Amaral is just a pawn in what they seek to do.

by Catkins Fri Oct 22, 2010 12:49 am

Thankyou Maria... flower

by Pedro Silva Fri Oct 22, 2010 3:52 am

dianeh my friend, I told a few days ago that when the libel trial is to start, I´m sure that the press will tell us all.

by Tinkerbell43 Fri Oct 22, 2010 10:55 am

I read this post on Raptors and thought I would reproduce it here for all to read:-

The court of appeal in Lisbon today, the 19th day of October, 2010, revoked the ban imposed by the civil courts placed upon Sr Amaral's book, The Truth of the Lie.

The question being tested is one of free speech. The appeal court has decided that Amaral's book is allowable as a publication under the European understanding of human rights and free speech.

The book was written by the former inspector leading the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann. The ban was invoked after the parents of Madeleine, Kate and Gerry Mccann, challenged the book which contains the inspectors opinion that the child was killed and the body hidden with the parents involvement. The evidence the inspector presents is flawed. His main 'facts' pointing to a reason leading to proving a death being the use of Calpol to induce the child into a deep sleep, the sniffer dogs indicating the presence of Cadaver and misunderstandings of 15 out of 19 markers in Madeleine's profile being a percentage indication of a dead Madeleine.

Only 'Calpol Night' can induce sleep and that had not come into production at the time Madeleine vanished. Basic Calpol is not a sleep inducer. The internationally renowned forensic organisation, FSS, concluded that the dogs findings indicate no conclusive evidence of death or presence of Madeleine. Possibly dried body fluids which can indicate the same as cadaver scent being equally as possible of actual cadaver scent. Not withstanding that Madeleine's DNA was not conclusive in the results either. 15 out of the 19 markers in Madeleine's profile were found within 37 markers. That is 37 markers contaminated by several known alive people and no conclusive indication of Madeleine's identity in the results as contamination included the family who share her markers. That puts a different picture on evidence showing 15 out of 19. Therefore the forensics proved a false positive and in layman's terms the Dogs evidence canceled itself out.

Commonly the argument is being used that presenting evidence of 15 out of 19 markers indicating Madeleine's cadaver is enough to convict the parents by circumstantial evidence and probability. Enough evidence to test Amaral's theory in court. Yet after the explanation by experts that the math is actually 15 out of 37 markers also contaminated by people who would share those 15 markers, the thesis has not been revised and the argument, totally flawed, is still being promoted.

All the former inspector Amaral could gain from the book is money. Not the truth, not the sharing of evidence, just monetary gain. That to any fair minded person is offensive, but free speech does not define offense. That definition is tested by the law if the offended take it to court. Currently Sr Amaral is being tested in court for libel and damaging the search for Madeleine. Personally I view his book as an exploitation of a child......abuse. To make money from a tragedy yet to be solved using the name of a child and misinformation for monetary gain.

In short. The appeal court has decided the publication is acceptable within the boundary of free speech. That is, one can say whatever they want in the Portuguese constitution. But the human right to test such a publication's value of defamation, libel and damage to the search for a child who may well be alive is still in the hands of the Portuguese judiciary. The result of that case will be more telling of the complete package.....free speech with responsibility.

If we are to gain any positives from this. I would like to think that a book being sold internationally, trying to convince people a missing child is dead and therefore there should be closure on searching for an alive child, will have more weight for it's author being successfully sued than a book not being sold to the public. The biggest positive being the funds raised from the book will help find Madeleine!!

It is important to remember that despite opinions about what happened to Madeleine The Portuguese prosecutor studied the case files, including Amarals conclusion and gave us the legal conclusion to the unsolved mystery.

Quote from: http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/PJ/LEGAL_SUMMARY.htm

Therefore, after all seen, analysed and duly pondered, with all that is left exposed, it is determined:

a) The archiving of the Process concerning arguido Robert James Queriol Eveleigh Murat, because there are no indications of the practise of any crime under the dispositions of article 277 number 1 of the Penal Process Code;

b) The archiving of the Process concerning Arguidos Gerald Patrick McCann and Kate Marie Healy, because there are no indications of the practise of any crime under the dispositions of article 277 number 1 of the Penal Process Code.

Mr Amaral, freedom of speech is no defense against exploiting Madeleine McCann.

clapping

Couldn't agree more.

by dianeh Fri Oct 22, 2010 11:45 am

maria wrote:I do not, in any way, agree with your understanding of this decision. The book ban, as well as the arrest of the assets, were/are temporary measures in nature, they should remain in place until the libel case is through. That is the spirit of the portuguese law.

What was/is on the table is very well described in the previous sentence: there are two fundamental human rights put in conflict by GA, his own right to free speech and McCanns right to good name. That is the i8ssue, the conflict between the two.

And all in all, no doubt whatsoever that GA is wrecking their good name.

Maria

I am not sure what you are saying. I didnt say I agreed with the court, but that the court believes that Amaral's right to freedom of speech has been infringed upon and so have overturned the injunction. The Appeals court doesnt have the right to determine if there is a case to answer for libel, although they did say that Amaral has the right to give his opinion or interpretation of the case, being he was involved with the case and is supposedly some sort of expert. In theory that is true. And being an appeals court, it can be argued on points of law without any witnesses being called. If argued on freedom of speech only, then I can see why the court ruled that way. I dont agree with them, but I can understand it.

But in truth, if libel is proven (and I have no doubt it will be), then such comments make Amaral's guilt even worse, because it means he knows that what he says is not true. Because he is an 'expert'.

The 'freedom of speech' issue was argued in the first appeals, and it was rejected, becuase the judge looked at the content of the book and decided that the damage to the McCanns was greater than Amaral's right to freedom of speech. The Appellate court has a different opinion. Injunctions can be overturned, well at least here they can, by doing exactly what was done in Portugal, by going to a higher court and arguing for it to be lifted.

It is a pity it was overturned.

by Pedro Silva Sat Oct 30, 2010 4:06 am

My friends, please take a look at this link:

http://www.algarveresident.com/story.asp?SID=93

by Rosie Sat Oct 30, 2010 9:03 am

Tinkerbell43 wrote:I read this post on Raptors and thought I would reproduce it here for all to read:-

The court of appeal in Lisbon today, the 19th day of October, 2010, revoked the ban imposed by the civil courts placed upon Sr Amaral's book, The Truth of the Lie.

The question being tested is one of free speech. The appeal court has decided that Amaral's book is allowable as a publication under the European understanding of human rights and free speech.

The book was written by the former inspector leading the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann. The ban was invoked after the parents of Madeleine, Kate and Gerry Mccann, challenged the book which contains the inspectors opinion that the child was killed and the body hidden with the parents involvement. The evidence the inspector presents is flawed. His main 'facts' pointing to a reason leading to proving a death being the use of Calpol to induce the child into a deep sleep, the sniffer dogs indicating the presence of Cadaver and misunderstandings of 15 out of 19 markers in Madeleine's profile being a percentage indication of a dead Madeleine.

Only 'Calpol Night' can induce sleep and that had not come into production at the time Madeleine vanished. Basic Calpol is not a sleep inducer. The internationally renowned forensic organisation, FSS, concluded that the dogs findings indicate no conclusive evidence of death or presence of Madeleine. Possibly dried body fluids which can indicate the same as cadaver scent being equally as possible of actual cadaver scent. Not withstanding that Madeleine's DNA was not conclusive in the results either. 15 out of the 19 markers in Madeleine's profile were found within 37 markers. That is 37 markers contaminated by several known alive people and no conclusive indication of Madeleine's identity in the results as contamination included the family who share her markers. That puts a different picture on evidence showing 15 out of 19. Therefore the forensics proved a false positive and in layman's terms the Dogs evidence canceled itself out.

Commonly the argument is being used that presenting evidence of 15 out of 19 markers indicating Madeleine's cadaver is enough to convict the parents by circumstantial evidence and probability. Enough evidence to test Amaral's theory in court. Yet after the explanation by experts that the math is actually 15 out of 37 markers also contaminated by people who would share those 15 markers, the thesis has not been revised and the argument, totally flawed, is still being promoted.

All the former inspector Amaral could gain from the book is money. Not the truth, not the sharing of evidence, just monetary gain. That to any fair minded person is offensive, but free speech does not define offense. That definition is tested by the law if the offended take it to court. Currently Sr Amaral is being tested in court for libel and damaging the search for Madeleine. Personally I view his book as an exploitation of a child......abuse. To make money from a tragedy yet to be solved using the name of a child and misinformation for monetary gain.

In short. The appeal court has decided the publication is acceptable within the boundary of free speech. That is, one can say whatever they want in the Portuguese constitution. But the human right to test such a publication's value of defamation, libel and damage to the search for a child who may well be alive is still in the hands of the Portuguese judiciary. The result of that case will be more telling of the complete package.....free speech with responsibility.

If we are to gain any positives from this. I would like to think that a book being sold internationally, trying to convince people a missing child is dead and therefore there should be closure on searching for an alive child, will have more weight for it's author being successfully sued than a book not being sold to the public. The biggest positive being the funds raised from the book will help find Madeleine!!

It is important to remember that despite opinions about what happened to Madeleine The Portuguese prosecutor studied the case files, including Amarals conclusion and gave us the legal conclusion to the unsolved mystery.

Quote from: http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/PJ/LEGAL_SUMMARY.htm

Therefore, after all seen, analysed and duly pondered, with all that is left exposed, it is determined:

a) The archiving of the Process concerning arguido Robert James Queriol Eveleigh Murat, because there are no indications of the practise of any crime under the dispositions of article 277 number 1 of the Penal Process Code;

b) The archiving of the Process concerning Arguidos Gerald Patrick McCann and Kate Marie Healy, because there are no indications of the practise of any crime under the dispositions of article 277 number 1 of the Penal Process Code.

Mr Amaral, freedom of speech is no defense against exploiting Madeleine McCann.

Couldn't agree more.

Thankyou Tinks, this is the same conclusions I came to. The two *hearings* where the book was banned, were supposed to have been granted pending the outcome of the libel trial? Have I got this right Maria? In which case the original judge had to rule that the McCanns good name was in danger from these publications and this would appear to be the basis on which the *temporary* ban was issued?
It is an enigma then to try and understand why this judge in EVORA!!!! Overturned the original decision to ban the book temporarily. But then we have to remember that Amaral himself has boasted about his "friends the judges".
Actually we were tipped off that this was on the cards some time ago. I would like to say that it makes what the judge did at the two oroginal hearings even more important and at least she isn't corrupt! HOWEVER, I just want to reiterate even more, I truly believe Madeleine is alive and I truly believe she is not only alive, but well and unharmed and if ever there was a time that the Kate and Gerry needed our positive thoughts it is now.

by Pedro Silva Sat Oct 30, 2010 7:28 pm

Well done Tinks. I agree with you both my friends: Rosie / Tinks.
applause

by rosemary Sat Oct 30, 2010 7:37 pm

Absolutely brilliant synopsis from Raptor - Tinks thankyou.

Those 2 words should be stuck all over Amaral´s face wherever he is photographed "CHILD ABUSER".!!! This is exactly what he is doing.

This whole ridiculous legal process is a farce IMO and makes a mockery of the Portugese Judiciary. But....Raptor is absolutely right, it does mean more money for the Madeleine Fund in the end.

by rosemary Sat Oct 30, 2010 7:40 pm

PS Rosie I would love to have your faith in Madeleine´s survival and unharmed too. Please tell me is it based on gut instinct only? It is good to have you back. We missed you.

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