Re: You May Find This Interesting!

by May Sat Nov 14, 2009 4:23 am

maria wrote:Oh Pedro, may be a waste of time but it is funny. JM and Duarte Levy did not sign or if they have they didn't use their names... Defunct MF known ( and probably unknown) members are there, people from 3a/Sky... Someone of the family of a Sky blogger just wrote as comment 'Forca Dr. Amaral', sorry this one is hilarious! (for the english speaking friends, 'forca' is the artifact where you hang people; what he was trying to say is 'força' which means 'stay strong' or similar).

By the way NONE of the Maria or maria in there is ME!!!!!

I prefer the forca You May Find This Interesting! - Page 2 466476

by Cath Sat Nov 14, 2009 4:27 am

maria wrote:There is a petition going on requesting 'justice for Gonc'. Plenty of signatures there, you can read them in no time. Go there and see for yourself.

Hey, I'm not saying you should sign!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://gonaral.epetitions.net/signatures.php?petition_id=947

In fact there's two site's people can sign to support GA. This one you posted is for all (international?) citizens to sign. There's another one for Portuguese citizens:
http://www.peticaopublica.com/?pi=PJGA%20
Looks like Jo's signed that one : Joana Andrea Pinto Morais Lopes da Silva (is she married, if so what was she doing with Levy?)

They fibbed with things in the past, I wouldn't be surprised if anybody told me they are copying the telephone book and creating email adresses at google, hotmail, yahoo to name a few.

If I was the person who'd receive this 'petition' I'd be rather suspicious about it and try to work out a way to check it.

by Rosie Sat Nov 14, 2009 5:43 am

It is this address that makes me laugh, http://gonaral.epetitions.net/signatures.php?petition_id=947

"gonaral" sounds like gonorrheal. You May Find This Interesting! - Page 2 466476

by Catkins Sat Nov 14, 2009 7:38 am

maria wrote:Oh Pedro, may be a waste of time but it is funny. JM and Duarte Levy did not sign or if they have they didn't use their names... Defunct MF known ( and probably unknown) members are there, people from 3a/Sky... Someone of the family of a Sky blogger just wrote as comment 'Forca Dr. Amaral', sorry this one is hilarious! (for the english speaking friends, 'forca' is the artifact where you hang people; what he was trying to say is 'força' which means 'stay strong' or similar).

By the way NONE of the Maria or maria in there is ME!!!!!

ROFLMAO.................... You May Find This Interesting! - Page 2 574656

by Catkins Sat Nov 14, 2009 7:54 am

GOOD GOD.............I can't tell you how angry I am when I read that FKIN w@nker Grenville Greens comment.......This imbecile stood in Rothley at Madeleine's candle....hiding behind a feckin helmet...and this nasty evil little sh@t has posted this comment !!

150 Grenville Green ...............Ever-living God, we remember those whom you have gathered from the storm of war into the peace of your presence. May that same peace calm our fears, bring justice to all peoples,and establish harmony among the nations, through Jesus Christ our Lord Amen

by Rosie Sat Nov 14, 2009 8:20 am

150 Grenville Green ...............Ever-living God, we remember those whom you have gathered from the storm of war into the peace of your presence. May that same peace calm our fears, bring justice to all peoples,and establish harmony among the nations, through Jesus Christ our Lord Amen

This is official, Grenville Green you are a vile hypocrite, a vile, vile man, and you are a racist liar!

Go post some more lies through people's door you vile creature.

You May Find This Interesting! - Page 2 Oxford11

You May Find This Interesting! - Page 2 Oxford11

You May Find This Interesting! - Page 2 Pic_0010

This is Grenville Green the man who belonged to Veritas and UKIP and has conversations with the National Front, just like his mate Tony Bennett.

Here is Grenville Green defiling Madeleine McCanns monument with Bennett's book of lies, the same booklet which he has now been forced to stop selling because he was threatened with a libel action.

Scum, just complete scum, the lot of them and that includes the McCanns stalker Debbie Butler!

by maria Mon Nov 23, 2009 6:53 pm

Today in 24horas, front page, Amaral is probationer [google translation] with João Grade in order to finish the requirements to become a lawyer. Afetr the trining time, he has to face some exams at the Lawyer Order. But the strange thing is that is will not allowed to be a member, so, not pratice law if he has a criminal record, which he already has. Actually, it is under appeal, do not know if it can be reversed. I've just watched a first instance judge reffusing to follow directives from the Supreme Court aledging it (the Supreme Court) is not competent to decide over the accptabilty or not of evidences or not (Face Oculta case).

But coming back to Amaral. This could explain why Grade attended Gonc's party. But still raises some doubts in my mind. Knowing that Amaral is a man capable of doing the bed to anyone without dirtying his hands, could it also explain why Grade was 'caught' carrying drugs into prison during the trial of Leonor? and that Grade refused to go after Amaral and instead gave him the chance of 'going up the ladder'? and the visit to João on Christmas? Clean hands indeed, but the rest of the body? IMHO

by Cath Mon Nov 23, 2009 9:08 pm

Well, well, well, that puts an end to the claims he's a lawyer then (I've had my doubts about that for a long time). And he's not allowed to practice if he's got a criminal record? Hmm
What's serving first, the libel suit or the appeal to his conviction?
I'm asking because he's claiming he's got no money to pay for his lawyer. So will the money of the fund that's been set up be spend on the appeal also or just on the libel suit? I doubt there'll be anything left to donate to children's charity. Just like non of the profits were donated to that (as he claimed he would do).
Oh and why are the fools over at Jo's place calling him Dr Amaral? Is it a honorary title?

by maria Mon Nov 23, 2009 9:21 pm

Actually, there is a big confusion about the DR and the Eng (engeneer). Theoratically, only those that are enrolled with the Orders should be allowed to use these titles. To be enrolled with the Orders, they must follow these two years training (in both cases) and for the lwayers not to have a criminal record. But in our case, also the prime minister (who didn't call himself engineer) is treated as Eng. Within PJ, Amaral was not treated as Dr, which in reality he is not but as Lic. , which means he has an university degree (which he does, in law, or criminal law or whatever).

He doesn't pay for this training, on the reverse, he may receive money, a very low fee. Or is it unpaid? I'm not sure here, I'll have to investigate. But the trainee doesn't pay for sure.

by christabel Tue Nov 24, 2009 2:05 am

Maria,

Had this off Morose blog, so don't know if its correct translation.

Amaral to train with former “enemy”

23 November 2009 | Posted by
("astro");

Gonçalo Amaral’s patron was Leonor Cipriano’s defender until the trial of five PJ inspectors over torture on Joana’s mother. Now they are great friends

by Rute Coelho

Life’s irony: Gonçalo Amaral, who in court helped to condemn Joana’s mother over her daughter’s death, is going to train, from January onwards, at the Portimão office of João Grade dos Santos, Leonor Cipriano’s first lawyer.

On the other hand, João Grade stopped defending Leonor – who exchanged him for lawyer Marcos Aragão Correia – on the eve of the trial of the five PJ inspectors and former inspectors that stood accused by the Public Ministry of torture over Joana’s mother.

“Since the first moment of the Joana case, I never forgot that I was merely a lawyer playing my role, and Amaral was a policeman”, João Grade dos Santos told 24horas.

“Gonçalo contacted me to become his patron during the training, which is due to start in January. Given the fact that he resides in Portimão and I have an office there, I think he chose me for a practical reason”, he explains. “That would be the reason, otherwise he would have proposed to practise at the office of his lawyer, António Cabrita [head of the Faro District division of the Lawyer’s Order], with whom he has an excellent relationship”, the lawyer explains.

It’s been months since João Grade dos Santos and Gonçalo Amaral started regular contact. “We speak very often”, the patron says about the retired inspector. João Grade even believes that the former inspector who led the Joana case investigation “may have been the victim of an injustice in the process over torture against Leonor Cipriano”.

Gonçalo Amaral ended up being condemned, on the 22nd of May this year, to a penalty of one year and six months in prison, suspended for a similar period, over the crime of false deposition. He was acquitted of the crime of omission of denunciation. The former coordinator in the Joana case investigation has appealed the sentence.

“He knows more than a 20-year-old trainee”

According to the Laywers’ Order’s rules, the training starts at the Lawyers’ Order itself, for six months, and only then can the candidate start his practical experience at a lawyers’ office. It is always the candidate who must find a patron. The full training period lasts almost three years. Then, one still has to pass the Order’s exams to be accepted as a lawyer.

João Grade dos Santos believes in his new trainee’s abilities. “My instinct tells me that Gonçalo is going to be very good. He has a refined smell and a brilliant career at the Polícia Judiciária: he become a coordinator during the time when inspectors were still called agents”, he praises, considering that “with his experience, he already knows a lot more than a trainee in his early twenties”.

Criminal investigation gives experience. “I have no doubts that he will be very good in the penal law area”, he says. As for other areas, like civil or family law, the future “master” of pupil Amaral bets on the student’s ability to learn: “I will explain to him how a process works. He won’t know how to carry out a divorce or an evacuation action at the first attempt, but I believe he will learn quickly”. The patron and the trainee are from the same generation. João Grade dos Santos is aged 51, Amaral is 50.

He even gave him the book

Gonçalo Amaral offered his patron a copy of his book about the Maddie case, “The truth about the lie”. “I read his book and I was convinced, as I had been before, anyway, that it was not an abduction. But the book does not defame the McCanns, Gonçalo Amaral does not express his opinion in it, but an investigation thesis”, says João Grade. Long before they became friends, the lawyer refused to cooperate with Spanish detective agency Método 3, which, according to a special programme on SIC on the 12th of February, wanted to count on his help in the investigation due to the Amaral factor, which was common to the Maddie and Joana cases. Grade refused. Método 3 contacted Marcos Aragão Correia, who accepted.

by Sabot Tue Nov 24, 2009 2:06 am

Isn't Amaral's family name de Silva?

by christabel Tue Nov 24, 2009 3:39 am

Sabot wrote:Isn't Amaral's family name de Silva?

Sabot I think it is Goncalo Amaral de Sousa

by Sabot Tue Nov 24, 2009 3:52 am

christabel wrote:
Sabot wrote:Isn't Amaral's family name de Silva?

Sabot I think it is Goncalo Amaral de Sousa

Sorry, just my paranoid mind working overtime. I never used to be paranoid, but I'm sure that one of that bunch is related to Amaral.

by maria Tue Nov 24, 2009 7:25 am

Didn't buy the paper but the translation seems quite 'acceptable'.

Just as I said. Training with a lawyer that was set up before his defendant was due in court. And who seems to have forgotten all about it.

Could I be wrong about the criminal record? I remember quite well a couple (or less) of years ago the president of a student association fighting against the high costs of university that was very very worried if the dean of the university had him identified by the police, as that would prevent him from working as a lawyer...

by Rosie Tue Nov 24, 2009 8:13 am

I am pretty sure he cannot become a lawyer because he has a criminal record.

Also there is a rumour around Portimao that Joao Grade is a drug addict, if he is this is another link to drugs and Goncalo Amaral and this would explain why he was caught with drugs, never could understand how that happened and why was there no charges pressed against Joao Grade when he was caught drug smuggling?

This man was a disgrace as Leonor's lawyer, he never gave her the defense she deserved, he never called the right witnesses, never gathered character witnesses, he allowed Amaral to say that Leonor was hated by her neighbours who said she mistreated the girl, when in fact this could not have been furthest from the truth!

I like that he is training Amaral, Joao Grade, would do better to concentrate on improving his capabilities, as lawyer he completely sucks. He let down Leonor Cipriano, he allowed her to go to prison for something she did not do.

I like that he thinks that Amaral MAY have been done an injustice, well I KNOW that Leonor has been done a great injustice and that was as a direct result of Joao grade, who is pig useless lawyer.

Says something for Portugal that they allow a CONVICTED CRIMINAL, to train as a lawyer, A BENT AND CORRUPT EX COP, WILL MAKE A BENT AND CORRUPT LAWYER.

Just wonderful Portugal, like Amaral hasn't given you a bad enough reputation already! You May Find This Interesting! - Page 2 526250

You May Find This Interesting! - Page 2 526250

Concerning João Grade, he was Leonor Cipriano's lawyer during all her first trial. João Grade was Leonor's lawyer since almost the beginning until September 2008. Leonor has already denounced his very poor work on representing her - please see 24 hours newspaper big interview to Leonor reproduced on the page "Imprensa" of Joana website. Apparently only at the beginning of the "investigation" a lawyer named by the court assisted Leonor (I don’t have his name as yet, since he was her lawyer only during a very short period of time). João Grade was not named by the court, he had a power-of-attorney from Leonor, because he convinced her to be her lawyer. Leonor or Leandro never paid him anything because they didn’t have any money.

Why João Grade dos Santos is saying he is only a fairly recent friend of Goncalo Amaral is a wonder, it looks like he is telling lies, probably to protect Goncalo Amaral. Someone told me he was a friend of Gonçalo Amaral and that he didn’t believe he tortured Leonor. This explains why João Grade did not do anything for Leonor either on the first trial, and neither on the preparation for the trial of torture. When Leonor kicked off João Grade and signed power-of-attorney to to Dr Marcos Aragao Correia instead, it was already too late to ask a compensation to Leonor if the torture was proved. The compensation should have been be asked of the court in 2007, a year earlier. João Grade dos Santos did not asked for a compensation for Leonor, neither did he present a single witness in her favour!

He never pursued the fact that Joana's blood was NEVER cross matched, so to this day, as the samples have been mysteriously discarded, there is NO tangible evidence to say that the blood was Joana's.

When Leonor was tortured and she made her confession, she made her confession under duress WITHOUT legal representation present, this is against the law in Portugal as it is here.

Also Leonor, should have confessed again in court at her trial, but she did not, so this is another point, that actually makes Leonor's trial illegal.

She did not confess again, because the day after she was tortured into making her confession she retracted her statement

One of the judges at Leonor's trial was so sickened by her treatment that he insisted on going down on the record as quoting that he believed that Leonor Cipriano was innocent.

Two judges of the Supreme Court of Justice - Drs Santos Carvalho and Costa Mortágua - voted against Leonor condemnation for homicide (the confirmation of the condemnation only had one more vote).
The position of those two judges was that Leonor should be acquitted of homicide but condemned of concealing evidence, and that João should be the only one condemn of the homicide of Joana.

Currently Dr Marcos Aragao Correia is trying to get Leonor a retrial, through the Portuguese Supreme Court of Justice. Marcos has made an appeal for that, on 8 June 2009. That’s why the Portuguese Supreme Court now wants to hear again, Leonor and her brother João.

So you can see the appalling job Grade done, he may not have been there for all the good he did, in my opinion, Grade was probably being threatened and intimidated by Goncalo Amaral and his ~~thugs~~ friends.

It was an appalling representation, just like anything that Amaral is involved, I believe that in my opinion the corrupt convicted criminal liar bent ex cop Goncalo Amaral, framed Leonor Cipriano, the same way he tired his best to frame and blacken the characters of Kate and Gerry McCann.

So, it is no wonder why João was on Gonçalo birthday party!!!

As information, the European Court can NOT release Leonor from jail. Only a Portuguese Court or the President of the Portuguese Republic (by an official amnesty) can release Leonor. The European Court only deals with money, as compensations.

Goncalo Amaral is a corrupt convicted criminal lying bent ex cop. He is almost half million in debt, he has allegedly been pilfering his money off into other peoples names. He has libelled the McCanns, so much so that a judge has injuncted against him and the courts have frozen all of his assets, now courts do not do this for nothing, they have done it, because they know the McCanns have a cast iron case and as for João Grade, Leonor's ex lawyer, he is useless, no wonder she binned him off, if he cannot see that Amaral is on a hiding to nothing, he is either as high as a kite or he has been got at and he is scared of telling the truth. the only way that Amaral can prove what he says in his book, is if he suddenly produces Madeleine's body and even then, he would have to prove that her parents killed her, João Grade, is pathetic and useless and if he is training Amaral, God help anyone that hires them, they are a pathetic joke!

I note that the pathetic fool had to get in that he did never believe that Madeleine was abducted, I wonder how far his arm was twisted up his back to make him say that?

This is so transparent, so false and so wrong, so utterly pathetic, João Grade, as well as Goncalo Amaral and the other bent corrupt ex policemen, are making a laughing stock out of Portugal.

I think this lawyer business will be the last straw, I know think it is only a matter of days before Amaral is arrested. he is making the Portuguese government, the Portuguese judiciary and the Portuguese people look like blithering idiot half wits and that is without all of his alleged financial improprieties!

by dianeh Tue Nov 24, 2009 8:21 am

Maria

Probably he can still train but not practice until his appeal is finished.

Grade is some sort of pathetic lawyer if he cant spot that accusing two people of disposing of their child's body without any evidence is libel. I certainly wouldnt go to him.

And he was well aware that Leonore was tortured, and he would also be aware that Amaral knew about it, and perhaps more. So how can he now say that Amaral suffered a miscarriage of justice. The true miscarriage of justice is the Leonore was represented by a lawyer who didnt believe her, who believed one of her assailants (that is what Amaral is because he knew and did nothing, so he is as quilty as the rest).

I am pretty sure that this set of circumstances would make its way to our corruption commission in this country. Too many ridiculous unexplained things, such as Grade and his carrying drugs into the prison. Strange that if that was true that he was never charged, and then disbarred. And now, he accepts Amaral as a trainee, and gives an interview about how wonderful he is.

You May Find This Interesting! - Page 2 269937

You May Find This Interesting! - Page 2 269937

by May Tue Nov 24, 2009 8:28 am

There is a long way to go with all this Rosie and I wouldn't hold my breath that Amaral will see the completion of his Law Degree. He may study inside but it will be of no use to him there.

by maria Tue Nov 24, 2009 8:38 am

Rosie, Diane

That's exactly my point. Everything points to Grade being in some dependence of Amaral, no doubt. Only I had a small hope that that smuggling was a set up, a warning, a 'fazer a folha' from Amaral to Grade, just in case he decided to defend Leonor. It appears not, well he's worse than I thought.

by dianeh Tue Nov 24, 2009 8:47 am

Maria

Agree, drugs into prison was most likely not a set up at all. Perhaps having certain friends, helps in those unfortunate situations. And friends always help each other out, dont they?

by Rosie Tue Nov 24, 2009 8:52 am

I think that Amaral coerced João Grade into giving this interview and saying these things, how strange that this should come along now? Look at the timing! Everything is going bad for Amaral, it is turning as rotten and as stinking of corrption as Amaral is.

Bent corrupt cops, now bent corrupt lawyers? What the hell is happening?

Well this is another thing that is going to blow right up in the face of Amaral, and yes Maria, in my opinion I do think that João Grade was delivered a 'fazer a folha' from Amaral and I think it worked, Grade deliberately lost Leonor's case. this is getting really serious, the level of corruption is going so deep.
In my opinion I think that Goncalo Amaral, was paid to frame Leonor Cipriano and in my opinion Amaral was also paid to turn a blind eye and to botch the investigation into the abduction of Madeleine McCann up. There are just hundreds of reasons, thousands of them, this is not right. Portugal has to act now and she has to act very fast.

by dianeh Tue Nov 24, 2009 9:02 am

Rosie

I am not sure that Grade has been coerced. He may not have been set up. It may just be that it suits him (due to circumstances) to be 'friends' with Amaral. It may be a mutually beneficial relationship.

On Amaral being paid for certain actions. It is hard to believe that he is receiving money yet is so far in debt. I know he has not used the money from the book on Madeleine to pay off any debts, so it is doubtful that any money he received from anywhere would be used to pay off debts. He acts as though he doesnt have to pay anyone. I wonder if some of his investments (like the race course for eg) account for his lack of funds. I wonder what would happen if someone investigated his investments etc, what would they find. Does the money invested (and lost) match to his earning potential, and then add to that the money spent, and the huge debts. I know we discussed this before, but his financial background, assets and living standard all need to be investigated.

by Rosie Tue Nov 24, 2009 9:16 am

If he wasn't coerced, he was probably lent on to do a favour for his friend, which is probably why Grade offered to take the Leonor case to begin with.It looks like he may have taken it to make sure that Leonor went down, to me it looks like the equivalent of match fixing! Grade is a friend of Goncalo Amaral. It is obvious he has been put up to saying all those things about Amaral

by dianeh Tue Nov 24, 2009 9:25 am

Yes, Rosie, Grade may have been doing his friend a favour when he took over Leonor's case. It wasnt like he did it to make a name for himself, or even to win the case, was it? And interesting that when someone as determined as Marcos gets on the case, things start to happen.

by Cath Tue Nov 24, 2009 11:05 am

Before Grade became mrs Cipriano's lawyer, she's had someone else representing her in court. That lawyer lost the first case. Grade did the appeal(s).

But there's been something puzzling going on.
And it all sort of involves drugs.

I've read today a rumour (so it might be totally wrong) miss M. is a drug addict (class A whatever that is) too. Anybody else who's heard about that?

by May Tue Nov 24, 2009 4:59 pm

I haven't heard that Cath, but nothing in this case would surprise me. Class A is the most serious type of drug.

by Sponsored content

You May Find This Interesting!