Link To Ex Governess of Casa Pia, Saying Abuse Continues Still!

Heres the link about the ex governess of Casa Pia saying the abuse still goes on there.

http://portugalresident.com/portugalresident/showstory.asp?ID=22176

Sad indeed.

Hi rosie,

im glad you brought this subject back up.I read about this long time ago both minxy and myself talked loads about it and cant understand why its not been investigated more. To be honest with you Rosie im baffled by the work of the social services out there. When they went to casa pia to see if all was fine and investigate if further abuse was happening they said it wasn't and that they had spoken to staff and all seemed fine etc etc.......................... but imo they should speak to the children there,not the staff.It was the staff who were involved in the abuse in the first place so what bl@@dy good do they think talking to staff is going to do?

Big cover ups in my opinion, dirty work, and no one cares enough about the victims to actually put their selves and their livelihoods on the line for them.

IMO poeple that are at risk of abuse like this should be taken away from the actual place they reside or where the abuse might be happening in order to be quietly and gently probed into finding out weather things are happy and safe for them or not. There are ways and means around everything and ignorance isn't one of them.

Im also confused at catalina (the ex governess) if she is adamant this abuse continues then maybe she should takes steps to ensure it stops,and if her own authorities wont listen then go outside your area and get help.

I know for sure if i knew of a child or adult in a home being abused by staff there is no way i could lay in bed and go to sleep not knowing weather they were being abused or not. I would have to do something about it.Call me a whistle blower.....but id rather be a whistle blower than sad tw@t letting someone be abused.And i know for sure id sleep much better knowing i have saved someone from more hurt than i would knowing that i have actually allowed it to continue.

IMO If you report your suspicions about something to someone and that person doesn't help then you report it to someone else.And you keep reporting it until your sure that somethings been done.

clairesy wrote:Hi rosie,

im glad you brought this subject back up.I read about this long time ago both minxy and myself talked loads about it and cant understand why its not been investigated more. To be honest with you Rosie im baffled by the work of the social services out there. When they went to casa pia to see if all was fine and investigate if further abuse was happening they said it wasn't and that they had spoken to staff and all seemed fine etc etc.......................... but imo they should speak to the children there,not the staff.It was the staff who were involved in the abuse in the first place so what bl@@dy good do they think talking to staff is going to do?

Big cover ups in my opinion, dirty work, and no one cares enough about the victims to actually put their selves and their livelihoods on the line for them.

IMO poeple that are at risk of abuse like this should be taken away from the actual place they reside or where the abuse might be happening in order to be quietly and gently probed into finding out weather things are happy and safe for them or not. There are ways and means around everything and ignorance isn't one of them.

Im also confused at catalina (the ex governess) if she is adamant this abuse continues then maybe she should takes steps to ensure it stops,and if her own authorities wont listen then go outside your area and get help.

I know for sure if i knew of a child or adult in a home being abused by staff there is no way i could lay in bed and go to sleep not knowing weather they were being abused or not. I would have to do something about it.Call me a whistle blower.....but id rather be a whistle blower than sad tw@t letting someone be abused.And i know for sure id sleep much better knowing i have saved someone from more hurt than i would knowing that i have actually allowed it to continue.

IMO If you report your suspicions about something to someone and that person doesn't help then you report it to someone else.And you keep reporting it until your sure that somethings been done.

I am not sure it's that easy in Portugal (or anywhere really). My understanding is that the abuse was happening with people outside the Orphanage - very important people. Various names have been given and they include a Doctor, Media people and senior people within Government. Also senior police and Judiciary, I believe. You can google it all up, if you are interested. The invovement of these Elites (untouchables) makes it very difficult to whistle blow, because they have the capability to all group together against the whistle blower and cause trouble.

The governer of the prison where Leanor Cipriano was held, was very brave and effectively became a whistle blower as did Marco Arageao Correia, Leanors solicitor in the Torture trial. They have both suffered the worries and indignities of having their names dragged through the mud. They have both suffered at the hands of the Media and the Judicia. It's not easy. Also, the whistle blower does the right thing and almost invariably ends up being out of a job, penniless and hated by all - awful isn't it?.

I am like you, clair, I would whistle blow over something like that - but I know what the consequences would be for me - and I doubt if it would significantly change the staus quo - the Elite seem to get away with everything, especially if they are part of an organised group.


And, yes the Investigators should be speaking to the children, because the staff may be tainted and part of the paedophile set up. You know, I would go mad if I thought that my child would have to go into a childrens home. There are so many scandals, although I think most of them are run OK.

Hi Sadie and Clairesy,

The Portuguese judicial system only works on two speeds apparently, 'slow' and 'dead slow'. As I understand it, the case of Casa Pia is continuing to go through the courts now, it is just taking a hideous length of time. Perhaps Maria could confirm this for us?

The ex governess has spoken out, I do not think it is easy for her, for someone to do this ordinarily it takes a great deal of courage, but in Portugal where the PJ still government (or think they do), I think it is even harder.

I think there are people high up the echelons of power in Portugal that know very well what happened in the case of Casa Pia and they know who is/was involved. Files and statements going missing make it very difficult to prove. I know Maria disagrees with me here, but I think there may be a chance of the same people involved with Casa Pia, may have been involved in Madeleine's abduction. It is not beyond the realms of impossibility!

Clairesy I share your frustration, I get increasingly frustrated when I KNOW that someone or some people in Praia da Luz, know perfectly well what happened to Madeleine and where sh is now and they either are too scared to speak out or they are involved so wont speak out. Nothing will convince me that this isn't true. This is why there has been such a backlash against the new poster campaign in PDL!

Rosie, I don't totally disagree with you, that is, there is a huge and open cover up and attention diversion in both cases. They both exist, child abuse in Casa Pia and Madeleine's abduction, but the 'plot' and 'actors' are PJ invention. No, not 'invention', something like 'made to order'. But that is the point in common, in my opinion, they are not otherwise related, or at least I most sincerely hope, for Madeleine's sake.

Yes Casa Pia trial is still going on. During the last allegations before sentencing, the Public Prosecution changed the whole accusation bits and pieces needing revamping, some 40 (what a number!allways coming up!) 'abuse dates' have been changed at the last minute, the arguidos did not provide any account for these new dates as there was no need in first place.

Casa Pia abuses DO EXIST. The abusers are at bay, because Casa Pia process, the one we all are talking about, IS A FARCE. Most of the accused are totally innocent and are being used as scapegoats, some of them just for homofobic or pseudo homofobic PJ's officer(s) reasons.

The first PJ investigator to uncover the situation was advised to shut up, as she didn't do it, she was moved to the ... drugs squad, and once there she was well framed as a thief. She was sentenced this week as having taken something close to €100.000,00 to pay for personal debts. While waiting trial, she attempted suicide three times, she did not attend the sentencing session because of health reasons and no proof was shown in court because 'there was no need for it'. Cross my heart, this statement is true. She had some 30 PJ officers deposing against her. Probably the entire drug squad, my guess.

So, Catalina Pestana may have had some courage, granted, but she currently has the right person to address in the right place: the Attourney General. And there still are honest people in the PGR to pick up things where they should be picked up.

Thank you as ever for your very honest appraisal. I think the good people of Portugal will no doubt win through in the end because good always does and I wish them well.

For us this side we get so frustrated when we see that people in power abuse that power and suppress people that need to tell the truth. I remember reading about this in that translation you done for me Maria and I feel badly for that poor woman who has been framed, she is truly brave and should hold her head high, she WILL have her day!

What is very clear that some people high up in power in Portugal know very well who and what is responsible for these atrocities against the then children of Casa Pia, and if it is still continuing tothis day as the ex-governess has impied, then this is very serious because it sends the message that these paedophiles in power think they are above the law, and can use and abuse children at their every whim! This arrogance is why I think these people 'know' what happened to Madeleine and where she is to this very day! I am convinced of this. And the poster defilement is being carried out by people who have orders to STOP anyone coming forward and giving information about Madeleine.

One thing people should remember is, if these people are behind this they are panicking, they must feel that someone is going to crack and talk very soon and this is as a direct result of pressure being applied to them and so this is not a time to back down, this is a time to step up the pressure and try and get those that know about Madeleine to talk.

I think the people behind Casa Pia and behind the abduction of Madeleine are one and the same and they inter-depend on 'both' sets of witnesses being kept quiet. If one of these stories breaks because the truth is told, I have a very strong feeling it will bring the other right down and will also prove the mother of Joana Cipriano is innocent and is in prison for something she did not do.

That poor woman is in no mentally fit state to be appearing in court, let alone changing her statement again, I really do not think she is compos mentis and as such she should NOT be allowed to give evidence or change her statement because she is in grave danger of compromising herself.

I think these three cases are somehow connected, but I also feel that the McCanns detectives are slowly chipping away and what we are seeing now is the beginning of an orchestrated campaign by the McCanns to find their daughter.

So in a nut shell ,child abuse and its prevention or prosecution of offenders isn't a priority at all?

Sorry to go off topic but I couldn't miss your sentence "and I feel badly for that poor woman who has been framed, she is truly brave and should hold her head high, she WILL have her day!". During the sentence reading, her lawyer left her stand and took the accused place. She said in the tv interview that she did it because she wanted to represent her client, facing the court in the eye, not looking down, as she would have her day!!!!

clairesy wrote:So in a nut shell ,child abuse and its prevention or prosecution of offenders isn't a priority at all?

Reading between the lines, child abuse and prevention of Prosecution are two of the main objectives of a good many people, Elites I suspect, out there - and it seems that they have a strangle hold on justice. They do not want any perpetrators identified, because it might lead to any one, or all, of them being identified. They want children to be easily available without fear of prosecution.

It seems, but maybe I am wrong, that they have developed a perfect system. Gerry and his team are the ones to expose them if it is at all possible; they bit off more than they can chew with Madeleines abduction IMO

We are right about the suspicions on this case.

The former Attourney General, who finished his mandate some time ago (one to two years) and who was the ultimate responsible person for this case, confessed today to the papers 'This case will have two convicted: Bibi (Carlos Silvino) and myself'.

This is a spontaneous confession of incompetence, at least. He agrees that there is nothing objective against most of the accused. If the abuses continue, and they do, then they chased up the wrong people.

As many people around have been claiming from the very beginning.

sadie wrote:

clairesy wrote:So in a nut shell ,child abuse and its prevention or prosecution of offenders isn't a priority at all?

Reading between the lines, child abuse and prevention of Prosecution are two of the main objectives of a good many people, Elites I suspect, out there - and it seems that they have a strangle hold on justice. They do not want any perpetrators identified, because it might lead to any one, or all, of them being identified. They want children to be easily available without fear of prosecution.

It seems, but maybe I am wrong, that they have developed a perfect system. Gerry and his team are the ones to expose them if it is at all possible; they bit off more than they can chew with Madeleines abduction IMO

which kind of sums it up imo then.....so its probably a pedophile ring(if she was abducted for that reason?) ...if it was a one off crazy guy then Portuguese cops would have been frantically trying to find him and bring him down???But because there is possibly a ring here..with some big guys involved then they are covering??? Hmmmmmmmmm..

Tonight i have watched a programm on this case.It was interesting to watch.Im not sure if its been uploaded onto the forum at all,but its about those American psychics who traveled to luz to investigate the case.Its on you tube and is in 5 parts.I must say after watching it i have been given a lot of food for thought.They believe madeleine was abducted that night by a guy who acted alone although probably was a peadophile...he was suppose to have taken her in a car to an apartment somewhere where he kept her in a bedroom for a few days whilst he sat and panicked as he saw the story of her abduction unfold on the tv.He panicked,seen her as an liability and suffocated her before burying her in a field not to far from luz.The two psychics involved spoke separately and both came up with the same conclusions at the same times but separate from each other...meaning they didn't collaborate their stories with one another.I know a lot of people don't believe in this sort of thing and i totally understand that, but im confused......................

Why would a highly respectable team of psychics that are used by USA cops to solve cases lie about what they are seeing feeling or getting etc. They wouldn't lie surly???surly they would rather say they are feeling nothing than say they are feeling her death...her suffocation...watching her abduction etc...........they both took the same road out of luz to where she was ebing held to........they said they saw the guy using a pillow to suffocate her,that she went quietly and wasn't abused in anyway by him even though they felt he was a pedophile.

Also something else about them..................they revealed that the guy spotted Madeleine at the beach restaurant where she ate icecream and that he videoed her on his mobile phone.......this was revealed by them before cops even released info that they felt a guy with a phone had taken a picture of her. So its pretty detailed and very interesting to watch. Im not saying i 100% believe what they have said because unfortunately without evidence to support their suspicions then madeleine should be treated as alive.Although i will say i no longer hold much hope for madeleine being found alive. I feel she was killed a long time ago,probably in the days after her abduction and the guy responsible is probably long gone. Maybe he is part of a ring...who knows.Maybe he was holding her for someone else??? He heard her laughing and thats how he spotted her....he followed them and watched them for days before striking as the mccanns left them alone to go to eat.

I also wonder if this is the reason that the mccanns have stayed out of the media in recent months.Because they to have information she is no longer alive although they now want to find her...bring her home and bring the b##tard that harmed her to justice. Not sure...but i have been thinking about Madeleine a lot tonight.The program had be sat on the edge of my seat all the while i was watching it.

I hope and prey she is still alive and will be found.I hope this reconstruction will shine some light on this case for them.The psychics certainly think there was other people around that night who actually saw him with madeleine although thought nothing of it. Maybe someone will be brave enough to come forward but for Madeline im really sorry i feel she is probably gone.Its been something i have wondered for sometime although have tried to not think about it and imagine she is alive out there somewhere. I dont feel that anymore.

im totally confused tonight about this case.Not sure whats going on with my usual beliefs about Madeleine safety etc. Ive suddenly gone from believing she is alive and well soon to be found, to believing she was dead not long after she was taken. Phew...what a difference hey....

tomorrow i will looking into these psychics some more to try and establish whether they are credible or not.Although they are used by American cops,they have solved soo many cases.I cant see them lying about this for tv ratings etc,it would devastate the family to hear such lies surly??? not sure...anyway thought i would post this to you,its whats been on my mind tonight

lets hope this reconstruction can provide them with some vital clues and answers

Claire

These psychics are not FBI psychics as they put themselves out as. They have supplied info to the FBI but the FBI has not acknowledged that it was ever used to solve any cases at all.

Also, it would be my best guess that they had their stories made up before getting to Portugal. It is not necessary for a true psychic to go to the area to do their work but it was for these people, AND they told the press what they were doing. It is all about publicity.

This was all to make a show to sell, to earn them money and hopefully create a reputation for them. As long as the truth about Madeleine is never found, then they cant be proven to be fakes. The mystery surrounding this case makes it a good one for frauds to latch onto.

If they were true psychics, then they should have been able to find the body, and they couldnt. I watched a show not long ago where a psychic in the US led the police straight to the body, and she was on the other side of the country.

I do not believe what these 'psychics' are saying.

It is possible that Madeleine was taken by a predatory paedophile. But that is as far as it goes. The biggest thing against this is that this type of paedophile does not stop at one child, they are called predatory because they continue to take children and to kill. It is possible the paedophile has moved on, but this is the sort of thing that Interpol keeps an eye on. A paedophile that is not a killer would not panic and kill Madeleine, he would just have released her, and then moved on, as it is very difficult for a young child to identify anyone at all.

Hi diane,

I suppose your right in a lot a ways there....but i think for me lately with this case dragging on and on...things start looking grimmer and grimmer as they do in all missing person cases. Watching them last night though gave me a lot of food for thought. I just hope that this reconstruction can shine some much needed light onto this case for them.I hope someway or another someone some where comes forwards and finally puts this family out their misery once and for all.It must be terrible painstakingly slow for them.Its bad enough for us, the public to watch.But i think for them it as got to be the most horrendous of things a person could ever go through.

I cant imagine being without my daughter. I cant imagine being without anyone i love to be honest, my family or my friends. Having someone you love and care for taken away from you and not knowing their fate must be even worse than losing someone to death. You don't know if they are being harmed in anyway and you cant know...not until someone who does know comes forward to help. Every day and night would be spent worrying and wondering...constantly feeling sick and imagining their fear and hurt and feeling frustrated and helpless because there is nothing you can do to help them,just search search search. Its something i don't ever want to go through. I could picture me stood on top of the highest mountain and screaming to the world until i flaked out with frustration. What can you do???

I think the mccanns have done really well with their search for madeleine,i would do the same for someone i loved to. I think everything they are doing is a positive step in the right direction aswel, however recently i have wondered if they going be let down and hit soo hard.I almost wonder if the shock of losing madeleine hasn't hit home for them yet because they are soo wrapped up in the campaign to find her(which of course is natural)......but i know from experience that when you lose a loved one(mine was through death though) you can sometimes throw yourself into a place that you feel you belong...it sort of helps you cope with your loss i suppose.And by doing that you feel you are also doing something positive for that ONE person you love and have lost.......But of course it wasn't a reality, i wasn't actually helping the person i lost,i couldn't help that person, and that person wasn't going to benefit from my work. But it helped me for quite some time.

Same sort of way the mccanns have done work with missing children maybe???Like when they started this amber alert system. I think everyone deals with loss in different ways. weather it be the death or someone or weather it be having a loved one go missing. To you they are not with you and your desperate and you start going to all lengths to put things right....even though the things your doing don't actually put things right for you....they help others, and at the same time give you a sense of satisfaction that you have done something positive

I know what they are doing is good,and i know i would do the same thing so im not saying they shouldn't be trying to find her. Quite the opposite actually.........But for me at the moment my fear is not only for madeleine but for the mccanns, and for the twins who still talk about madeleine and set dinner for her etc.............. I wonder if they have actually took time to deal with this themselves. I dont suppose they have had the time,its all part of losing someone the way they have...you dont know their fate so you keep plodding onwards in the desperate hope of finding them alive and safe. I hope they do find her alive and well ....ive hoped this from the start and will continue to hope it.

I just hope they are not throwing themselves into a place where they feel they belong....JUST finding her alive when they are avoiding the possible death of madeleine.

I want madeleine to be alive of course i do. But reality is.....we don't know,and we cant keep searching for her alive and ignore the possibility she is dead. I think 2 teams should work on this case....i think they should be doing all they can to find her weather she be dead or alive. And i think some places in and around luz need to be searched again for her. If your trying to find a live child and your asking people to keep watching as they are shopping for that child and she is dead then your not going to get what your looking for are you??? People are not going to spot Madeline walking around a shopping center if she is not even alive. And I haven't heard any news about any places being dug up or searched for Madeleine. Except that crazy guy who had a dream she was in the reservoir.

I would like to see the rubbish tips searched in and around luz because the bins where emptied that night.....i would like to see all those dirty lakes combed ...drained if they have to be..there are also a lot of disused wells in the area......have they been searched??? we spoke about a lot of this on the thread Rosie set up here not long ago.......

....and i would also like to see the campaign...the new one to find her alive in full swing. As they are doing!!!!

Gerry once said without evidence that Madeleine is dead they have to assume she is alive.............thats true to a certain extent. But i also think that without proof she is alive you also have to assume the possibility she is dead. Ignoring that would mean your avoiding the possible fate of Madeleine.

So i believe that even though we all want and hope she is alive...and we all want to encourage everyone to keep looking for her out there somewhere...........................we all also have to believe that she needs to be searched for dead to. We cant do no other..because we don't know nothing about her fate that night.

I care about the mccanns,i see their pain in their eyes sometimes when i see them on tv and in papers etc. Its clear to see how much madeleine means to them and anyone who thinks otherwise is obviously looking for something else. And of course i think they are doing right by searching for her,she is there baby. If i had one wish tonight i would wish for them to find their daghter safe and well tomorrow monring.

For what it is worth, I believe that the McCanns search does include looking for Madeleine both as a living girl and as a child that lost her life in PDL back in May 2007. BUT the public face will be the search for a living child, because that is the area which needs the most public help. If Madeleine was killed, then a public campaign will achieve nothing, for this specific information and searches are needed, and the searches were done back then. I doubt if someone found a child's body they would just cover it up again and go about their business.

So while the McCanns publicly state they are searching for a live Madeleine, their detectives will be searching for both options, and the info they recieve will be acted on, no matter what direction it takes them.

I dont know if Madeleine is alive or dead, but in my heart, I believe she is still alive. My reasoning is that if she survived the initial abduction, and we have reason to believe she did, then she may still be alive. If she were my child, I would continue to search for her (as you said you would) and to believe she is alive,until I know different. That is what Ben Needham's mother has done, she still believes that Ben is alive.

Claire, we all wait for the day that we will know what has happened to Madeleine, and that both Madeleine and her parents are re-united, and their suffering is over. But the worst possible outcome is for the McCanns to never find out what has happened to their daughter, to live with this for the rest of their lives, as Kerry Needham has done. It would be tragic for Madeleine as well, if she is still alive, to never be returned to her family.

It is hard for us not to despair. It must be almost impossible for the McCanns. My thoughts are with them and Madeleine, and I continue to hope that this nightmare will be over very very soon.