Out Of The Mouth Of Portugual

Comes this report from someone who knows what they are talking about. Shame on Goncalo Amaral and his ignorance and out dated lazy buffoon methods.
The same methods that have Leonor Cipriano in jail for something she in all probability did not do!

I would like to see what pretendy doc Notdoc and the idiot Claudia and the pretendy solicitor Viv have to say about this.

I am still waiting for an explanation of how pretendy solicitor and pretendy probation office Viv got her degree.

By GRANT ROLLINGS

Published: Today
THE top criminologist in Portugal has slammed the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.

Jose Manuel Anes said the methods used by police were flawed and out-dated.


He added: “Errors were made, not just by the Judicial Police, but by a whole group of people who took part in the investigations.”

Mr Anes, former head of criminology at Portuguese police’s science lab, attacked the decision to make Maddie’s parents Gerry and Kate “arguidos”, or suspects.

He said it was based on flawed evidence.

Mr Anes, 64, added: “There’s no knowing in what condition samples arrived at the laboratory.

“You find or you don’t find. You can’t invent! Also there’s a fundamental principle that it’s better to have a criminal free than an innocent in chains. That’s the slogan of our profession.”

Mr Anes also defended British police, arguing their offer of help was no impediment to Portuguese cops.

He said: “The English police even offered dogs. If they didn’t want to find anything, they wouldn’t have lent dogs.”

Mr Anes admitted the case has been an embarrassment to his country and that police did not handle the pressure.

Maddie vanished from a holiday apartment in Praia da Luz days before her fourth birthday in May 2007.

Her parents, of Rothley, Leics, were accused over the disappearance, but the case was dropped.


g.rollings@the-sun.co.uk

Aw c'mon Rosie, tell us something we DON'T know!

According to the nasty Clawdia.....Grant Rollings has it ALL wrong. She puts it down to bad translation.
Perhaps Maria will be able to verify that.

Ah, of course! THAT would be it!

Just how f***in' stupid does she think we are???

Well, Vee8....not as f---ing stupid as we KNOW she is!

According to clawdia, the article was mis-interpreted. This is what it actually said.

THE top criminologist in Portugal has praised the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.

Jose Manuel Anes said the methods used by police were perfectly up to date.


He added: “No errors whatsoever were made, by the Judicial Police, and the whole group of people who took part in the investigations.”

Mr Anes, former head of criminology at Portuguese police’s science lab, defended the decision to make Maddie’s parents Gerry and Kate “arguidos”, or suspects.

He said it was based on unempeachable evidence.

Mr Anes, 64, added: “The samples arrived at the laboratory in perfect condition”.

“You find, and if you don’t find, you can invent! Also there’s a fundamental principle that it’s better to have an innocent in chains, than look for the real culprit. That’s the slogan of our profession.”

Mr Anes also attacked British police, arguing their offer of help was an insult to Portuguese cops.

He said: “The English police even offered horses, docmac and Viv.”

Mr Anes admitted the case has been an inspiration to his country and that police are looked on with the utmost respect

Maddie vanished from a holiday apartment in Praia da Luz days before her fourth birthday in May 2007.

Her parents, of Rothley, Leics, were accused over the disappearance, but have so far evaded justice, due to their slippery financial backers..

vee8 wrote:According to clawdia, the article was mis-interpreted. This is what it actually said.

THE top criminologist in Portugal has praised the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.

Jose Manuel Anes said the methods used by police were perfectly up to date.


He added: “No errors whatsoever were made, by the Judicial Police, and the whole group of people who took part in the investigations.”

Mr Anes, former head of criminology at Portuguese police’s science lab, defended the decision to make Maddie’s parents Gerry and Kate “arguidos”, or suspects.

He said it was based on unempeachable evidence.

Mr Anes, 64, added: “The samples arrived at the laboratory in perfect condition”.

“You find, and if you don’t find, you can invent! Also there’s a fundamental principle that it’s better to have an innocent in chains, than look for the real culprit. That’s the slogan of our profession.”

Mr Anes also attacked British police, arguing their offer of help was an insult to Portuguese cops.

He said: “The English police even offered horses, docmac and Viv.”

Mr Anes admitted the case has been an inspiration to his country and that police are looked on with the utmost respect

Maddie vanished from a holiday apartment in Praia da Luz days before her fourth birthday in May 2007.

Her parents, of Rothley, Leics, were accused over the disappearance, but have so far evaded justice, due to their slippery financial backers..

Clawsie wont mind if this is sent off to Mr Anes then?

You really are as thick as two short planks Clawsie, you are as thick as the day is long. :annoygnat:

hey not long now and your mate Gonc is going down!

There's only one thing to add to Claudia's post................

drachen is back on the VM big debates board, and as usual is not best pleased because I am daring to critisize her beloved PJ! here's her response to my cutting and pasting the article from the Sun on that board. She seems particularly annoyed that I enlarged the font type on the headline, to match that of the original article.

Not only are you a manipulative "groomer" deliberately using this discussion to recruit new members to your own club you are also a blantant deceiver too . I will simply cut & paste the same article without altering any of the fonts myself and lets see what the actual posting results of the article are prior to self font manipulation shall we? You're now a proven deceiver aswell Sleuth. Gut gemacht!!!

So, I'm grooming people to come over to my own forum? looks like she's afraid of the truth, that there are far more people supporting the McCann's than she'd like! She then followed that post up with the following one, which looks like another cut'n'paste job, probably from her favourite stagnant pond, the 3a's.

Today after reading The Sun's ridiculous piece they called a story " Maddie probe is blasted"

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/ne ... 790007.ece

It was brought to my attention that this was/could be an old article by The Daily mail from December 07, which was according to a subsequent report the next day in Corrieo da Manha a distortion of what Mr Anes had originally said (you can read the article on the following link):

http://www.correiomanha.pt/noticia.aspx ... 0000000010

After realising this I forwarded a complaint to The Sun detailing these facts and asking for an explanation as to why they were again misleading the public by rehashing an old article by another newspaper that was disputed by the person they claimed to be quoting, I await their response (which will probably a long time coming).

After this I did some Googling and came across Mr Anes's web site and decided to drop him a line, to cut a long story short I informed him of the article explaining my concern re The Mail article and kindly asked him to confirm if he had indeed made a new statement to the U.K press.

When I got home to my surprise I have received a reply from him I will not print it but summarise what he has said.

He said that this article was even worse than the original (he used the word shameless or blatant) that it distorts the context of the original interview he gave to the journalist Manuel Catarino the author of the book "The guilt of McCann" and what he said at the end of his book. He says that he spoke originally in the context of methods of DNA analysis and the general errors that may occur in criminal cases in general not in the McCann case (in short he was giving his expert opinion on DNA methods generally as is I believe an area of his expertise).

He also states the fact that this is not a statement that has been paid for, he recalls. He thanked me for bringing it to his attention, (calling it an unfortunate article) he said it has made him so sad that he is considering taking action.

I await a response from The Sun (with interest). I was a bit wary of e-mailing Mr Anes but I am now glad that I did. Maybe just maybe The Sun will think twice before assuming that the public are fools and will swallow whatever they care to give us.

P.S. I have just received a further response from Mr Anes who has informed me that he has just made a statement to the Morning Post (www.cm.pt) refuting The Sun's story and that this should appear to in tomorrow's edition of the daily Portuguese newspaper.

I really must try to stop 'monopolising' the big debates board with articles telling the truth, musn't I, drachen?!

I have been looking for confirmation of any of these news, be it the João Anes criticismo or his denial.

No news on the written side. The original interview should have been back and published in August/2007 to the Daily Mail, then used next day by The Sun. And then Correio da Manhã (which actually I've seen translated as 'Morning Post'...) denying everything. Should also have been by then an article written in the Diário de Notícias that I couldn't find either.

But I watched his interventions (3 or 4) during a debate on RTP1 (Prós e contras) on the 10/09/2007. He spoke about his own field of work (Chemical Forensic Analysis) with some incursions in other areas, namely the biological forensic analysis, the crime scene preservation and analysis, the clues follow up and priority determination.

All of is speech was soft and cautious, not discharging potential mistakes but always finding the 'reasons' that may be behind this or that decision. He applauded the decision to take the analysis of the residues to Birmingham, not only because the work WAS complex and lengthy and LPC could have some difficulty in doing the test due to lack of resources but also because of rivalry already surfacing in both countries between media and police forces. Even his support of evidences instead of confessions in court was soft and mild. (Remember Leonor Cipriano was convicted based on a confession and PJ has desperately looking for one from Kate)

So, I believe whatever his spoken statements were they were 'coloured' by Daily Mail and The Sun.

I would like to read what Mr Anes views on the so-called forensics evidence that was used in court to help convict Leonor Cipriano.

The analysis of the blood said to have been found in the Cipriano home and the freezer was undertaken by a lab in Portugal, but this blood was NEVER DNA tested and never matched to that of Joana Cipriano, so really this evidence is not evidence as it is highly unsafe.

When Leonor Cipriano's legal team requested the blood sample be DNA tested and tested for a match to Joana, they were told that the sample had been discarded, so no tests could be carried out!

On this basis alone this makes for an 'UNSAFE' trial and the case against Leonor Cipriano and her brother should have been dismissed.

There was no other real evidence, every bit of evidence was circumstantial and hearsay and there was no body.

I believe there has been a terrible miscarriage of justice carried out against Leonor Cipriano and her brother, if you read through this evidence, the quality of it is shocking and you wonder how come any civilised court could have used this and come to the conclusion they did.

Of course the police investigation was carried out by Goncalo Amaral and leaves ordinary sane thinking people shaking their heads in disbelief that this could have happened!

Reading what Amaral's ? wife, ??ex wife writes about him only backs the case for an unsafe conviction even more. Apparently Amaral asked his wife to pack him food so he could take it and eat it with Joana's imprisoned uncle and this makes Amaral some kind of wronged saint?

I know what it makes me think and saint is NOT it! Probably guilty conscience!

That is not going to help you any Amaral, Karma is a coming for you!

By the way, did Leonor's brother ever retract his confession? DID he even confess?

I don't think he confessed, do not know an awful lot about him, but Leonor's case is absolutely hair raising, how on earth she was convicted is astonishing!

Absolutely right Rosie, two point you have mentioned, would it really be surprising to find blood in Joana's freezer as I believe there is probably at least some slight traces of chicken blood and other meats in most peoples freezers, and for the prosecution to have actually discarded that vital evidence during the course of the trial I think can be taken with a pinch of salt and the case should have been thrown out! The whole thing is a disgrace and stinks to high heaven, Leonor should be freed immediately!
Alroy.

It all comes into context though when we remember that in Portugal, a confession is seen as the holy grail and once given, the prosecution is not required to produce hard evidence to back up the confession. In Aust and other western countries, the prosecution must show hard evidence to the judge to back up the confession. This is done to ensure that someone is not coerced (as appears to be the case with Cipriano and her brother) and that the person who confessed is not just some nutcase wanting his five minutes of fame (remember the one who confessed to killing JonBenet, he wasnt even in the state at the time).

Portugal needs to changes its laws and justice system to ensure that any confession is supported by hard, indisputable evidence, such as forensics on the blood traces from the freezer. Wasnt there also a pair of child's undies that had something on them that was also never tested, or did I dream that?

It is clear to us, that the prosecution never met the burden of proof of guilt to a reasonable person. That is there is reasonable doubt in this case, and most of this was not presented at Leonore's trial, it only surfaced in the appeals. And IMO it was enough to quash the conviction of both Leonore and her brother. At least it should have been enough to go to a new trial without the retracted confession (or if it is in, then Leonore would be allowed to testify that she was beaten to get the confession, and if she didnt want to go on the stand, then the Prison Governor who raised the matter publicly would have). But the judges couldnt allow that, as it shows there was no evidence, and that proper process wasnt followed. Why wasnt the so called evidence sent for forensic analysis, how could it just have been accepted without any scientific analysis, why was opinion allowed in to the court without any substantiation (you know Leonore and her brother having sex, no proof of that at all), etc etc. It is just laughable.

I feel that Portugal doesnt want this to go to the European court. It will be dealt with at this upcoming trial. I have been looking in my crystal ball again.

Six PJ inspectors charged with torture in "Joana's Case"

There are six PJ inspectors accused of torture in two different processes. Three start being trialed this friday at Faro, , in the "Joana's case". The others, related to the "Park's Process" (Processo do Parque), which would originate the "Casa Pia" process.

These are the two "'more serious cases in accusation terms" that are marking PJ's life. The more mediatic process is the one linked to Leonor Cipriano, Joana's mother, the little girl alledgedly killed by the mother and the uncle, João Cipriano, (see next text). Three of them are accused of torture, another of document forgery and a fifth of perjury and perverting the course of justice.

The other case, which trial date is not yet settled, is based on the accusation from a railway worker from Sintra, who accuses three inspectors of agressions during questioning.

Carlos Anjos, from ASFIC [PJ Union Association] assures that, "with this seriounes", only these two situations are recorded, revealing that there are "a few running processes", but that are related to "accusations of physical integrity offenses".

They are cases of investigation of "violent crimes", reinforces Carlos Anjos, who recalls that in PJ's history "there are no condemnations" and the cases going to court "end up shelved either because of lack of evidence or because of evidence of not having been violence". "Recently a case involving four inspectors was shelved because the aggressions weren't proved", he added.

With relation to the trial starting today at Faro Court, the ASFIC president says to feel "calm, as he believes it is a false accusation". "We trust our colleagues who deny the accusations", sustains Carlos Anjos, recalling that Leonor Cipriano "already confirmed that two of the inspectors accused of torture did not beat her and she didn't even see them".

http://jn.sapo.pt/PaginaInicial/Policia/Interior.aspx?content_id=1033382

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Two ex-cops writers linked to "Joana's" case

In front of a judge and four jurors, there will be sitting today, at Faro Court, three PJ elements and two ex-investigators, that left the corporation in the meantime. [...]

The defendants belonged to DCCB (Central Directory of Combat to Bandistry) - who were sent from Lisbon to help in the investigations - and to the Department of Criminal Investigation of Portimão), who headed the process.[...]

http://jn.sapo.pt/PaginaInicial/Policia/Interior.aspx?content_id=1033380

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Robberies' investigation gives accusations to PJ inspectors

Already accused and waiting trial date are thre PJ inspectores also charged of torture. The elemets, among whom is Tavares de Almeida, chief-inspector who was second in line at Portimão PJ Directory, who investigated the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, are accused of aggressions by a railway worker from Sintra.

The plaintif, suspect of being involved in a series of robberies, would have been questioned for several hours. Acording to the case report, contained in a book written by the current Lawyers Bar President, António Marinho [*], when he left the questioning room, the suspect had "four broken ribs, several blood clogs[**], wrist marks and several bruises on the torso and back. The accused pressed charges against the agents.

This process was started by Ana Paula Marques - PJ coordinator currently under preventive jail suspect of taking money aprehended by PJ from drug trafickers -
following an anonymous denunciation. The case would be known, in the following years, as the "Caso do Parque" [Park's case] and already contained already references to sexual abuses which victims would be Casa Pia's students who use to walk around the Prque Eduardo VII, in Lisbon.

The case that sprung the process had origin seven years ago and involved a brigade investigating robberies and assaults, coordinated at the time by Ana Paula Matos.

Among the accused cops is Tavares de Almeida, 48, who was in charge for the brigade which investigated Maddie's disappeaance, May 2007, form the Ocean Club at Praia da Luz, and right harm of Gonçalo Amaral, at the time in charge of that investigation.

The chief inspector is said to have requested an unpaid leave, but the truth is that he is working in Algarve. Qiuet and unsympathetic towards reporters, Tavares de Almeida is praised by his colleagues, who say he is an excellent professional.

The chief inspector and the two other arguidos are already charged to be trialed, which should happen next year. On a first phase, the public prosecutor (MP) shelved the accusations against the eight inspectors in the case, but the Lisbon Criminal Instruction Court, after process instruction, decided that there are enough evidences to charge and trial three arguidos.

http://jn.sapo.pt/PaginaInicial/Policia/Interior.aspx?content_id=1033381

************************************************************

[*] When this happened, Marinho Pinto was coordinating the Human Rights Section of the Lawyers Bar. This is an attempt to be detrimental of his character and motivations.

[**] This may be a bad translation, it is meant as a very heavy bruise, a blood bump.

Thanks for posting that maria. It is very hard to understand from that translation exactly what is happening here.

I understood that it is to be 5 PJ going to face trial over this? As t Goncalo Amaral and one other they have not been accused of actually carrying out the beating, they have been accused of concealing evidence about this beating and not reporting it, so why would Leonor say she saw them? She probably didn't.

I know there was five inspectors I will look up the names, they are on this forum somewhere.

Also if this fails in Portugal, then Leonor's case is already registered at the European Court for Human Rights and if it goes there, Amaral needs to be a bit afraid as he will not be able to get away with anything there.

I just hope that justice is done here and the Portuguese jury can see what all logical rational people can see.

Rosie

Rereading the post, I aggree it is somewhat confusing, as the pieces of news are as well.

1. There is the case of Leonor. In relation to that one, you are right, there are 5 PJ cop or ex-cop arguidos, and the charges are as you say. Their trial has been postponed to the 26th November due to the death of a judge's family person.

2. There is the case of the Sintra railway worker who was suspected of robberies and was heavily beaten by three PJ cops, among them Tavares de Almeida, right arm of GA in Madeleine's case. This man was heavily beaten, getting 4 broken ribs, 'bloods bumps' and heavy bruises.

This case (the robberies) was started by Ana Paula Matos, in the meantime suspect of keeping money from the aprehensions made to drug trafickers and currently in preventive prison waiting trial (three suicides attempts so far, currently in special cell). She was heading a brigade investigating the so called 'Caso do Parque' which already contained references to paedophilia at Casa Pia and that gave origin to that individual case later.(*)

Oh and yesterday it was announced that these 3 will go to court trial on the 22nd November.

3. These are the most serious cases ever against PJ cops.

4. No matter how many there were, there has never been a conviction.

(*) Just noticed that a sentence is missing in my translation below. Will go there and edit it in italics.

These are the police involved.......

PEREIRA CRISTÓVÃO
It was one of the investigators connected to the capture of the CREL Gang and of the ATM Machine II Gang, of the terrorist Abu Salem and the Borman Eastern Mafia. Accused of the crime of torture (1 to 5 years).


LEONEL MARQUES
Investigated major terrorism cases - Revolutionary Brigades and the FP25 - arrested the ATM Machine Gang and solved the major cases of violent crime in the decades of the 70's and the 80's. He is considered a legend amongst the DCCB. Accused of the crime of torture (1 to 5 years).

PAULO MARQUES BOM
Was one of the main investigators of the Passerelle Case, from the Corsica group responsible for various assaults to banks in Portugal and of the group who in 2003 robbed banks and armoured security vans. Accused of the crime of torture (1 to 5 years).

NUNES CARDOSO
He is the youngest of the five arguidos and the one who as being serving the PJ for less time. At the time of the Joana Case, he worked on the fight against banditism in Lisbon, he was then transferred to another department. Accused of forgery of a document.

GONÇALO AMARAL
Famous for the Maddie Case, which dictated his exit from the PJ, investigated several homicide cases. Before he was the responsible for the fight against narcotraffic. False testimony and omission of denouncement.

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/

There is now a document being shown that says the police who were accused of torture, did not enter the station until two hours after the alleged beating.

It can be seen that a lot of cops entered the station at exactly the same time 20.00hrs....very reliable time keepers....in fact

I wonder why is such a document being leaked now? Surely this is evidence and it should not be leaked, if it was any good and if it is truth then it should be presented at the trial in defense of the accused PJ?

I would say that this document is a lie and it is being leaked now, to try and get into the heads of those chosen to sit on the jury at the trial of these PJ.

I have to say this, I am appalled at the lack of security that things like this are leaked prior to such an important trial.

This has been the case throughout the investigation of Madeleine McCann's disappearance and throughout the investigation of the disappearance of Joana Cipriano, something is very wrong here and it needs sorting out.

How can there be accusations and leaks and smears coming out of the PJ, apparently from those conducting the investigations and nothing is ever done about it? Some have been serious security leaks concerning the cases of witness statements, witness names, addresses, home, work and mobile phone numbers. As in the case of journalist Felicia Cabrita, when she obtained all of this top secret information.

1. Who gave her this information?
   
2. For what reason was she given this information?
   
3. What did Ms Cabrita have to do to gain this information?
   
4. Did any money change hands for this information?

How many European countries do you know of who would not have held a an official full and open public inquiry into such a dangerous security breach as this?

Was Goncalo Amaral ever questioned about this serious breach in witness security, concerning the case of Madeleine McCann whom he was the lead detective at the time?

Did this have anything to do with why he was ultimately sacked from this case and then why he suddenly took early retirement?

Can I ask what the hell is going on in Portugal, that serious security lapses like this and failed sacked detectives are then allowed to write books and make money out of innocent little children, children they they failed?

Why is Portugal allowed to get away with these appalling situations? Why isn't the EU forcing Portugal to clean up her act? If the EU was any good at all, it would be doing something about this, or pray tell, what is the point of the EU at all?

Why is Goncalo Amaral (recently retired PJ) allowed to make money out of Madeleine McCann?

Why is Paulo Cristoavo (ex PJ) allowed to make money from writing books about Joana Cipriano and Madeleine McCann?

Both girls disappeared under similar circumstances. Both NEVER found. Both cases the parents/relatives were accused. Both cases on completely circumstantial evidence.

What is going on in Portugal?

Why hasn't Goncalo Amaral been brought in for official questioning into his conduct and the appalling way the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann was carried out?

If Portugal will not hold these inquires by her own volition, then Portugal must be be forced into doing it and the people holding the inquiry should be independent of Portugal.

Rosie and others, would it not be possible to have your Post translated into Portuguese and sent to the Portuguese prime minister what ever his name is, surely it is his responsiblity to ensure their (his) the countries police force and judicial system in run both eficiently and honestly?
Alroy.

I don't mind translating anything for you, it will be much easier to translate from english to portuguese than the reverse, I assure you. However, I see no problem in sending a letter in english, this is the government who introduced english as second language in primary school... Not kidding.

But I don't think the Prime Minister should be the man. He is a politician and this is not a political issue, but a justice one. The man you want is the Attorney General, Pinto Monteiro, a VERY honest man, trying very hard to do more than his best.

If you so decide, let me know. I can translate and give you the correct address.

Please can you do this for us? Tidy it up of course as I did not write it with this in mind, but I would be very grateful to you, if you could do this and perhaps the addresses of both the Prime Minister and the Attorney General?

I have an idea to make copies and send it to several people, maybe the current president of the EU also and I would of course send a copy to the British PM and out Home Secretary and our Foreign secretary. Maybe a copy should also be sent to the new Chief of the PJ? This is actually a political matter and the politicians should force an inquiry of the head of the PJ doesn't order one himself.

It will probably get ignored by the lot of them but it is worth a long shot.

I know if this happened here in the UK there would have been an outcry and at the very least the police would have been obligated to hold their own internal inquiry, into the obvious failings and security leaks. If there was a lot of public pressure, then the politicians would have stepped in and the Home Secretary would have ordered a public Inquiry, in fact we would have probably had an inquiry ordered by the PM himself and someone appointed to head that inquiry.
How Portugal has simply swept these obvious failings under the carpet is astonishing, this is not government or a police service accountable to the people.

What is to lose? A bit of time and the price of a few letters.