Help Find Madeleine McCann forum

[jean]

I've just been reading posts on this forum, and some are quiet interesting, two are from people making comment about the tunnels under Praia da Luz, and the lack of interest the Portuguese police had in them. Also the fact that the person who posted feels that some of the police have some involvement in Madeleine's disappearance!! which I have thought all along. Below is a copy of these comments ....

After studying the case closely, Prof Canter, director of The Centre for Investigative Psychology at the University of Liverpool, concluded Maddie was taken by a gang of traffickers. The professor said: "Child traffickers are very quick at hiding a child’s identity. In one case they managed to drug a girl, dye her hair and dress her as a boy within an hour of taking her. "She was quickly found in the arms of an abductor but her parents barely recognised her. "I believe Maddie was skilfully targeted. It is very unlikely that someone would break into the apartment on the off-chance."I don’t believe it was a lone paedophile. They’re very unlikely to carry out a crime like this.

He believes the computerized photo holds the best hope of Maddie being found. Such pictures have led to 900 youngsters turning up more than two years after they disappeared.

Mr Allen told of a five-year-old in Texas who saw an age progressed photo and told her mom: "That boy is in my class." The boy had been abducted in Michigan and given a new name.

"Child trafficking is a growing, very profitable industry. There is a good chance Maddie is alive."

Let us keep our eyes open. Maddie can be found. Please continue to pray for her.
..............................................................................................................

Secret tunnels beneath the Portuguese seaside town where Madeleine McCann vanished two years ago today may hold the key to her disappearance.

The tunnels, dating back to Roman times, have never been thoroughly searched, despite repeated requests.

Documents in Portuguese police files, suggest a vital line of inquiry was ignored and have led to fresh calls for a proper investigation into the tunnels.

There are six to eight tunnels under Praia da Luz that the Portuguese police have not searched. There is a tunnel under the church, there are tunnels under Estrela da Luz apartments. These have not been searched.

"Does this not send alarm bells ringing? Something not right in Portugal. Why did the PJ not search these tunnels and the church?"

Not only have the portuguese not searched the tunnels, they have not allowed anyone else to search them either. That seems to be a bit suspicious. I think Madeleine may have been taken through there and her DNA may be found there along with others that are involved.

For a long time I have suspected someone of high influence in the PJ knows exactly what happened and is covering it up.

It would not be the first time that someone in the police covers up a crime. Has anyone heard of organized crime? It happens everywhere in the world. Many times all it takes is a call from the culprit to a high official threatening his family. This may very well be the case with Mr Amaral. He is too persistent in attempting to sabotage every move the McCanns make with absolutely no proof at all of their guilt..

[Tinkerbell43]

Thank you Jean, I will read this with interest tomorrow. I am on your wavelength!

Goodnight,
Tinks.

[Catkins]

I've just been reading posts on this forum, and some are quiet interesting, two are from people making comment about the tunnels under Praia da Luz, and the lack of interest the Portuguese police had in them. Also the fact that the person who posted feels that some of the police have some involvement in Madeleine's disappearance!! which I have thought all along. Below is a copy of these comments ....

After studying the case closely, Prof Canter, director of The Centre for Investigative Psychology at the University of Liverpool, concluded Maddie was taken by a gang of traffickers. The professor said: "Child traffickers are very quick at hiding a child’s identity. In one case they managed to drug a girl, dye her hair and dress her as a boy within an hour of taking her. "She was quickly found in the arms of an abductor but her parents barely recognised her. "I believe Maddie was skilfully targeted. It is very unlikely that someone would break into the apartment on the off-chance."I don’t believe it was a lone paedophile. They’re very unlikely to carry out a crime like this.

He believes the computerized photo holds the best hope of Maddie being found. Such pictures have led to 900 youngsters turning up more than two years after they disappeared.

Mr Allen told of a five-year-old in Texas who saw an age progressed photo and told her mom: "That boy is in my class." The boy had been abducted in Michigan and given a new name.

"Child trafficking is a growing, very profitable industry. There is a good chance Maddie is alive."

Let us keep our eyes open. Maddie can be found. Please continue to pray for her.
..............................................................................................................

Secret tunnels beneath the Portuguese seaside town where Madeleine McCann vanished two years ago today may hold the key to her disappearance.

The tunnels, dating back to Roman times, have never been thoroughly searched, despite repeated requests.

Documents in Portuguese police files, suggest a vital line of inquiry was ignored and have led to fresh calls for a proper investigation into the tunnels.

There are six to eight tunnels under Praia da Luz that the Portuguese police have not searched. There is a tunnel under the church, there are tunnels under Estrela da Luz apartments. These have not been searched.

"Does this not send alarm bells ringing? Something not right in Portugal. Why did the PJ not search these tunnels and the church?"

Not only have the portuguese not searched the tunnels, they have not allowed anyone else to search them either. That seems to be a bit suspicious. I think Madeleine may have been taken through there and her DNA may be found there along with others that are involved.

For a long time I have suspected someone of high influence in the PJ knows exactly what happened and is covering it up.

It would not be the first time that someone in the police covers up a crime. Has anyone heard of organized crime? It happens everywhere in the world. Many times all it takes is a call from the culprit to a high official threatening his family. This may very well be the case with Mr Amaral. He is too persistent in attempting to sabotage every move the McCanns make with absolutely no proof at all of their guilt..

So true..............

[Pedro Silva]

Yes, so true.

[Rosie]

Whatever it takes and where ever we have to look, it should all be done, in fact it should have already been done in the first few days for the investigation! It is really heart warming to know that there are other forums and blogs trying to do the same as we are doing here and raising the same questions too!

I was very interested to read your post Jean because we have some information like this on here and these tunnels etc and the fact that they have not been searched, seems to be coming very much to the fore now!
Perhaps this is another way we should all band together and try to get someone to take notice, I think we need to become even more pro-active.

I think things came to a head when we learned that despite everything that happened concerning the convicted criminal liar Amaral and the incompetence, the bungling and the deliberately burying of tip offs and leads and not publishing the e-fits of suspects, despite all of this, and a hell of a lot more besides, last week we discover that the Portuguese police are still playing games with this innocent child's life and still trying to cause her parents immeasurable grief, in any way that they can and this simply has to STOP and someone in authority somewhere has now to act.

Perhaps our Portuguese posters could supply us the names and addresses of whom we may write to in Portugal about this?

Something has to be done, this is another tipping point we reached one of those before and the Portuguese government got rid of Amaral, enough is enough now and we have to act again!

Madeleine is depending on it and so are her beleaguered parents!

Remember, these sayings very cliche`, but never have they been more true now.

"Every journey starts with a single step" and "from little acorns mighty oaks do grow" and we do not know what we can do until we try and we have failed only if we do not try!

[clairesy]

i love that saying Rosie,you just reminded me of something someone once said to me ...similar to what you put...

''a thousand miles begins with the first footstep'

And its true,the only problem is with the Madeleine case those vital first steps were not taken and that as meant that those left piecing together the pieces(ie the mccanns and their detectives) don't know where to begin.Like the detectives though i think pdl is a good place to start...(for obvious reasons) And in all fairness there are loads of pieces missing to this jigsaw,those pieces have either been ignored(probably) because they are not felt part of the jigsaw or have been lost amid the rest.Starting from scratch and putting it all together,discarding bits that don't fit and trying to find pieces that do fit takes such a long time.When you have to go behind someone else and unravel their mess it takes even longer. The tunnels should be considered because unless you try to fit them in somewhere you don't actually know for sure that they wont fit in.

Thats why im baffled as to why the Portuguese police discarded(and still do) soo much without actually having any REAL CLEAR picture of what happened to work on. How can they be sure that all these little pieces wont make up a clearer picture if they dont use them and ivestigate them first?They're like the blind leading the blind aint they.Only worse because they choose to where they frigging blind folds

[rosemary]

I am in no way standing up for the PJ but I would just like to put forward the suggestion that the reason these tunnels have not all been searched is possibly because they are or may be unsafe. They are extremely old, let´s not forget. But I heartily agree their existence should be made more public and pressure brought to bear to examine every single one insofar as it is possible. How does one do this???

[clairesy]

hi rosemary,i understand what your saying,but if they had hard evidence to suggest something was going on in them tunnels they would go in them.So unsafe or not, if there is a chance at all they were used in Madeleine's abduction then they should be searched,carefully,but thoroughly.Sadly that's something we have not seen in Portugal with this investigation,and furthermore other investigations to.

My guess would be that if they threw a couple of bottles of plonk down them tunnels there would be a race between the police to see who can get to them first!

There are specially trained folk who carefully rescue people everyday from unsafe situations such as caves etc and tunnels and cliffs etc.The tunnels are under luz so i would imagine they are pretty safe anyway.Ive seen pictures of some of these tunnels and they appear to be structurally safe,if they weren't i would imagine the town above it(luz) would be in danger of collapsing into them.

My village is built ontop of a huge mine,it runs for miles,its massive and if ever the mine collapsed the village along with neighbouring villages and towns would be gone........1 mile down. Of course there's always a chance though LOl,hope not though,mind you i think some of the antis would be pleased to see me buried 1 mile down beneath massess of slurry and coal. pmsl

[dianeh]

There are ways to search tunnels without going in. There are snakes (like those used to clean the sewage pipes) that have cameras in them, they are very long and can go quite a way. There is also little robots that are available, they are used in the earthquake zones.

If the tunnels are unsafe, then it is doubtful that the abductor would go very far into the tunnel, so these methods would probably be useful. However, they do cost money and this may be an issue particularly if the PJ is underfunded, and there is no evidence to suggest that Madeleine was ever in the tunnels.

Just adding that I am referring to no evidence in that Madeleine had ever been in the tunnels, only in repsect of the PJ trying to get funding to explore the tunnels. If for eg, someone came forward that had seen someone carrying a child in there, or if someone thinks they may have seen a body or human bones in there, then funding would most likely become available for the search.

[jean]

I remember a long time back that someone posted on Brian Ladd's site that they had been to Portugal when Madeleine was first abducted and the police were guarding the tunnels!! That sounded suspicious to me at the time. I also remember something suspicious about the Priest at the church going missing (not Father Hubbard) and there was a lot of contraversy over him. So many strange things seemed to happen, whether it was the media elaborating on stories to make them more sensational than they were, I don't know. But I'm sure a few of them must have been true, and of course not acted upon by Ameral and his gang. I also remember the police spokesman was all of a sudden taken from the forefront, because he didn't agree with the way the case was being handled. All of these things struck me at the time as being mighty strange. It was as though the police were trying to hide something. I really wish I could go out there and investigate myself, it is so frustrating being an armchair detective.

[Rosie]

Father Jose` Manuel Pacheco, is the priest said to have had a breakdown because the McCanns did not thank him for personal use of the chuch or hand the keys back to him in person!

What nonsense! He was leaned upon by two PJ who interviewed him for around two hours and after that he went into a recluse!

Google Father Jose Manuel Pacheco and Dr Barra da Costa Martins and see what comes up!

[clairesy]

i think it was father Hubbard who had a break in at his home,some documents or files(not sure) were stolen from his home.I don't recall the details,will try to find out.Does anyone else remember this or am i going loopy!

[Rosie]

Hi Clairesy

I do remember that vaguely, didn't a computer of his go missing or something?

Did you do as I suggested?

Perhaps we will put something of great interest up in our 'other place'. I may do this later on this evening, I am sure you will find it very interesting.

[clairesy]

Hi rosie yer your right,just found this,from martin brunts blogs.He wrote it back when there things were stolen.


''Anglican priest Haynes Hubbard and his wife Susan lost a computer
that contains personal and confidential email exchanges between the two
couples.

The laptop also held notes on which Father Hubbard was basing his sermon about Madeleine at the weekend.

Mrs Hubbard is concerned, too, about private telephone numbers stored on a mobile that was also stolen.

The Hubbards became great friends and comforters of the McCanns in
the days after Madeleine's disappearance and have kept in touch since
Gerry and Kate returned to the UK.''

to me it sounds as though someone stole them to get a glimpse of the type of conversations he was having with the mccanns
no prizes for guesing who that was!! and imo obviously nothing was found or they would deffinitly have said something about that in their deluded book or documentary!!!

[Rosie]

Hi Clairesy

Exactly my thoughts! Someone stole that computer on purpose, to see conversations between the McCanns and the Hubbards, pity like everything else they do when trying to pin something on this couple, it fell flat on its face! So obvious, lousy coppers and lousy burglars. Seems they cannot do anything right!

[clairesy]

yep and also,makes you wonder who it really was who blew up malinkas car and wrote the word fala on the pavement.Was someone desperate for info,any info,because they are under a great deal of pressure from media and public to solves a case?

Dont get me wrong i dont malinka,hes been reported to have peadophilia interests etc,of course that could be all lies in the media although im sorry i wouldnt trust him as far as i could throw him.He and r murat lied about having contact around the time madeleine vanished.WHY? so hes one of many that i stil cannot get my head around and even begin to feel any sort of respect for.

[Rosie]

There is such a lot of unexplained 'happenings' about certain people and I always think, that one maybe even two people could be mistaken about who they saw, but 8 and more being mistaken? I don't think so.

However, the truth WILL out it always does and i have a strong feeling that this investigation is about to really start revealing its secrets and there must be some very frightened people in and around PDL. Which would also explain why a certain defective detective is getting so edgy and paranoid he is now saying he knows where Madeleine is and that he can suddenly and miraculously produce two witnesses!

I don't know about Susan Boyle benefiting from treatment at the Priory, I think Goncalo Amaral would benefit from a spell there too!

I honestly think this man has totally lost the plot, he is like a loose cannon and as the days go on he is becoming more and more bizarre, so sane person could take this man seriously, he has lost it!

[rosemary]

I have always thought the blown up car and the word Fala (?) on the pavement were highly significant. In Spanish the verb Fallar is - to pronounce judgement, to sentence. Fala! could be the imperative form. But does anyone have the correct translation, Pedro maybe? Was it supposed to be "Talk!" And did that mean -"Talk and this is what happens to you!" Or did it mean "Talk!" i.e. we need some answers!

All ambiguous. Anyone know for sure?

[clairesy]

good thinking rosemary, i hadn't thought of it that way before. I always imagined the word fala would have been sprayed there to tell him to talk,i hadn't thought it might actually mean dont talk. M,ind you for some reason i think its probably talk as in you better starting talking buttie boy.Could be wrong though i suppose. I am sure that malinka had a van burnt out to,cant be 100% on that although i would say im 99% sure he had a van of his burnt out to before the car.

The reason i am suspecting a cop maybe done this is because his car was burnt out around about the time they had tagged murats car to track where he was going etc.So at that time i would imagine the police were still pretty sure these two were up to something.Or that maybe malinka knew who was responsible but wasn't saying because he was protecting him maybe?

What bothers me though about the two of these guys is that both malinka and ***** have been reported to have peadophilia tendencies.Why is that?They both deny it of course although i find it confusing as to why people would say that about them anyway and given that murats family also used to live next door to a well know British peadophile in Portugal im worried about all the so called coincidences here. Also they both reportedly lied about having contact with each other,they said they hadn't spoken for around 8 or 10 months and that it was only for malinka to help ***** set up a business web site page with his German misses.Hmmmmmm but then telephone records proved they actually spoke for quite a long time the night Madeleine was snatched!!!

*****'s mum is reported to have protected him and covered for him in a previous reported sexual assault and she also as a cop friend who walks with her and her dog regularly to.It all seems a bit comfy for me.If my neighbour was reported as liking children etc and was mates with a cop and then was a suspect in a child abduction case i would find that sooooo weird,but then for that person to also be pally with all the cops on the case and also have special knowledge of the witness statements would naturally point me in the direction of corruption and cover ups.I could be wrong of course because that is only my opinion.

But im not being funny......... what are the chances of you coming across such a huge pile of coincidences.not just little ones,but huge ones,and a long string of them to.

[rosemary]

Let´s wait to hear what Pedro has to say about this Fala on the pavement. I would love to know if it could be used in the alternative way I described, maybe colloquially.
And yes, Clairesy, there are far too many coincidences. Too many people know something, a few know a lot - and are keeping schtumn!

What I find simply staggering about this whole case is that the whole world can apparently still sleep easy, yet knowing their children are being spirited off the streets.

[Pedro Silva]

It could be used as a warning, a threat, as an order, to tell something that someone knows.

[rosemary]

Thankyou Pedro. So we still do not know for sure which one it was! I personally go for the threat.

[rosemary]

PS I just asked my husband what he thought the word Fala meant and the blown up car, threat or command. He asked me what happened to Malinka and I told him he had left to return to Russia. Then my husband said, - "no doubt about it, it was a threat..meaning "next time, if you talk, you will be IN the car."
Interesting..........

[clairesy]

hi rosemary,

i think your hubbie could right, but theres only one thing,next time talk and you could be in the car?....would imply he's already talked,and that if he does again he will be in the car, but im not sure hes said anything,but..........what your hubbie said as given me a thought also......

had malinka got scared,had he been in touch with people to say he is scared etc?have these people then got scared he is going to talk and have then blown his car up with the word fala(talk) meaning...think about malinka,you wanna talk yer...you wanna be blown up ye???

weird isnt it,but i deffinitly think the car being blown up and the word fala needs to be looked into because if it isnt any of the above i would imagine a cop as done it to him to threaten him,to get him to talk,like a torture tactic maybe

[Rosie]

I believe the word 'fala' means to 'speak or talk'.

I always took this as an indication that someone was trying to make him 'talk' abot something he knew about, but was keeping quiet about.

Try this link

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-540909/Murat-friend-quizzed-Madeleine-finds-car-torched--word-speak-scrawled-it.html

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