Mrs Fenns Statement/From Official Files

Released today on 3A's. But a very bad Google translation. I'll wait and see when there is a better translation.

I think after the Dogs this statement is going to be a huge bone to contention. The Anti's will milk it, no worries.

ModNrodder wrote:Released today on 3A's. But a very bad Google translation. I'll wait and see when there is a better translation.

I think after the Dogs this statement is going to be a huge bone to contention. The Anti's will milk it, no worries.

I've seen that on another forum, Mod. Again, two possibilities: who's to say Mrs Fenn heard Madeleine and not some other child crying, and how odd that crying as loud and distressed as Mrs Fenn describes should have attracted her attention alone. From what I gather, the block accommodated many more people than the McCanns, their friends and Mrs Fenn. Yet Mrs Fenn was the only one to hear or report anything?

HB, Thats excactly what I feel. This is a statement from someone who witnessed something by ear and not by sight. There is a big difference. I have no doubt that Pamela was telling being honest as to what she heard. But at the end of the day we get her speculative interpretaton of what the sounds may have indicated.

If she said that she saw it was Madeleine and could state it 100% was Madeleine then we may have some concrete evidence. But just from hearing a child crying for over an hour is just what it says on the tin.... hearing a child cry for over an hour. Yet from this many looking for damning proof are using this tesimony as 100% proof.

In my opinion it boils down to prejudice and looking for anything....anything at all to make people out as justifying that prejudice.

And don't forget the TV camera, catching her denying she even said it.

Isn't there some confusion about her saying she didn't speak to the press rather than not giving a statement? have to find the video again.

I must just add this too.

Bridget O'Donnel and Jes Wilkins were staying very close to the McCanns on an upper floor, in fact if you remember, Bridget says she remembers looking down on the McCanns apartment from her balcony and 'LISTENING' to the 'doctors, (as they became known) laughing and joking'.
Bridget and Jes gave a statement to the police in which they stated that their child had not been very well and had been crying for a couple of nights, non stop and to pacify the child, Jes had taken the child out for a walk in the buggy.

How does Mrs Fenn know that the child she heard crying was Madeleine and not Bridget and Jes's child? I would say that it is a distinct possibility that if Mrs Fenn heard a child, then it would more than likely be this child and not Madeleine. Now Mrs Fenn would have had to hear that child crying non stop in an enclosed quiet area, does she say she heard two children crying? Does she actually 'know' who the child was she says she heard crying? Does she actually know it was Madeleine?

I may be wrong, but I am sure I saw her on TV speaking and denying that she said she heard Madeleine crying.

So which is it to be and is she a reliable witness?

I know at one point her son had to step in and ask the press to back off, because he was worried for his elderly mother, I remember this and did he not say that his mother had net heard anything too?

Thats right Rosie. Hearing a child crying does not equate to Madeleine crying. Why should it not be just as likely to be another child and as you say there was another child, not a McCann.

I've used the vid tags to post the youtube video of Mrs Fenn but the preview does not show a video . Hope it loads when I submit.

Have to click thi, sorry.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=VTrFb-0zLuY

I sorted it for you, I hope you do not mind?

I remember this it is hard to hear you have to whack your volume up, but getting the gist of it, she quite clearly says 'She knows nothing' .....well done for getting this!

It is very difficult to hear, is she saying, she has never spoken to a Journalist ?

Cheers for that Rosie, no I dont mind at all.

Last night the McCanns got a boost when the police case appeared to be undermined by a pensioner who is potentially a key witness.
Pamela Fenn, 81, lives above the apartment where Madeleine disappeared and is reported to have told police she heard Madeleine screaming below.
But yesterday she broke her silence to say it was "absolute rubbish" she had made any such claims to police. Mrs Fenn said: "I didn't even know that family was in there."
Sir Alec Jeffreys, the inventor of DNA fingerprinting, said he was prepared to act as an expert witness for the McCanns.
He stressed that DNA matches on their own did not establish a person's innocence or guilt.
Sir Alec told BBC TV's Newsnight: "There are no genetic characters in Madeleine that are not found in at least one other member of the family.
"So then you have an incomplete DNA profile that could raise

I translated each line on the vid using babelfish.

sincerely. I do not know you are welcome
I am ha here three months
e, during this period of time. I never spoke with a journalist
the English press has only published nonsenses
e I did not say an only word
Nonsenses are never alone
please, they forget this

Maria or Pedro, you can tell me off or congratulate me...well not me but bablefish, lol.

Hi Tinks, where did you find that please.

I's very confusing all this from Mrs Fenn and what she said. At the end of the day I heard is not as good as I saw.

Didnt it also come out quite late, that one of the friends that was staying in the apartment next to K & G hadnt gone out on that particular night because their child was not well and from their apartment they never heard Madeleine crying.

Got it Tinks, good find. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-481485/Madeleines-mother-quizzed-Portuguese-police.html

If what the paper says is true then the PJ made it up or mis interpreted what Mrs Fenn said. Or, is Mrs Fenn referring to the Mail in her video?

Just being devils advocate here as any arguments with Antis need to be watertight.

Again at the end of the day what she heard is not conclusive evidence that it was Madeleine she heard crying.

I suspect that Mrs Fenn did tell the PJ something, but that (as you would naturally expect) she understands the Portuguese laws of secrecy far better than those to whom she imparted this information, and understood that she might land herself in trouble if she talked to the press -- and so didn't, beyond (in effect) to say 'no comment'.

It goes without saying that such a complex philosophy would be completely beyond someone like Amaral.

I was having trouble copying and posting the link. It wouldnt be the first time the PJ misinterpreted something would it, they done the same with the DNA results!

Listening to the video and seeing Mrs Fenns alleged words in the Mail, she does tend to use the words "absolute rubbish" and "nonsense". I therefore have a tendancy to believe the paper printed her actual words.

She doesnt deny speaking to the police, she just says she never made such claims. Therefore I'll stick with this was misinterpreted or twisted by the PJ until such time I see her official statement and it says otherwise.

I would agree with that too Tinks, this is old news and it is nonsense now as it was then!

Thanks for those links Mod, I think it is about time that the antis had a reality check, they are either completely unhinged or pathological liars!

It keeps coming back the appalling slip shod investigation that Amaral ran and the awful feeling that something obvious has been missed, or worse still deliberately concealed, for fear of repercussions involving another case!

When are those responsible in Portugal going to grow some kahunas and do what they 'know' to be the right thing?

Order a public inquiry, get Amaral in for questioning and get to the bottom of what happened to Madeleine.

Everything seems to suggest that they know where to start!

I also have always believed that if it had of been Madeleine crying that night, that the twins would have woken and cried as well. Especially as she was supposedly crying for so long. I have noticed that my kids will sleep through a bit of noise (this is from when are on holidays) but if one is crying a lot (as happened on a holiday last year, my little girl was ill), the other one eventually woke. And if Madeleine was crying loud enough for it to be heard by someone in another apartment, then I doubt the twins slept through it. And remember that my children are the same approx age as Madeleine and her siblings were when the abduction occurred.

But if it was the Wilkins baby, then its crying would not have been enough to wake up the McCanns children. And another thing to notice is that there is no distinction between whether it was a baby crying or a toddler. And their cries are very different. Also, a sick child cries differently to a scared child. Yet, none of this is reported.

And another thing is if the crying was from a scared child, it would have got hysterical at some point, and if it could be heard by someone such as Mrs Fenn, then she should have acted by calling reception. And also, Madeleine would cry and say words, not just cry, my daughter always yells out words when she is getting hysterical or just cyring, it is always 'MUM, where are you, MUM, I want you" and I am in the next room.

Now while this was a piece of propaganda (for want of a word that isnt a swear word) that was passed around at the time, the resort has completely denied that they were called to the McCanns apartment, on the night before Madeleine was abducted. This was just a slur put in the paper, and is completely missing from the PJ files, because it never ever happened.

I think that Mrs Fenn did hear a child cryiing, but it was the Wilkins baby, and it was not hysterical it was a sick child. There were no words (as was also reported in the press) and she was not concerned to do anything about it. Therefore it is a non event. All the other things regarding that night were 'made up' by the press in Portugal, then subsequently printed in Britain. And none of the 'other' details have ever surfaced in the PJ Files. To clear this up, I would need to read the files themselves, or at least the translation. Can someone give me a link to it, PM me if you dont want it to be on the this thread.

Hi Dianeh, I have a link to the 3A thread but the interpretation is not very good. I'll try and find a better English version and I'll be back.

This is from the first PJ report that came out. I now have to ask, what are the new reports that are comiing out are they not the same?

On page 2412, is the interview with PAMELA FENN, who relates several
details, of which, though not clarifying the facts, are elucidating. PAMELA
FENN lives on the first floor of the residential block, above the apartment
occupied by the McCANN family. She related that, on 1 May 2007, two days
before the disappearance, at about 22h30, she heard a child crying, which
by the sound was MADELEINE. The child continued weeping for one hour
and 15 minutes, until the parent’s arrival (she heard the door sounds), at
about 23h45. This witness places in cause the allegation (by the parents) of
the daily routine of visits every 30 minutes to check the children who had
been left on their own.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

If Mrs Fenn actually said "which by the soundwas Madeleine" thenhow in the hell would she know that???

She heard the door sound. Does that mean 'parents arrival' ????

I dont think they mean that Pamela places in cause the allegation. I think they must mean that they(PJ) are speculationg that Pamelas statement places in cause the allegation of the daily routine.
Clutching at straws methinks.

Mod,

there's something with Mrs Fenns "statement" if correct I cannot get my head round.
How could anyone listen to a child crying for 75 minutes and do nothing about it?
Had Mrs Fenn heard Madeliene cry before this to be able to distinguish if it was her crying?

Has Mrs Fenn been got at?


Back in court the 18th Gonc

Thanks for that.

There must be more to the report than that. There is nothing to support that this was even true. Where is the confirmation that the McCanns came home at that time? Were other people asked if they heard the crying? And once again, how is it known that this was Madeleine and not one of the other children (the wilkins child for eg)? Also, once again, if a child was crying for an extended period and it was disturbing me, then I would ring reception. Particularly as children do not cry for so long. And why did no one else in the place hear the child?

This reads very very strangely. Is it just the translation, or is the report so vague in its detail, with no supporting evidence, that it is ridiculous. Particularly that Pamela's statement gives suspicion as to the allegation by the parents that they regularly checked on the children. That is a fairly ridiculous and unprofessional thing to write in a witness statement, and this is particuarly so when there is no further investigation detailed to follow up as to the truth of the witness statement.

Very very sloppy Police work, either in the investigating, or in the recording, but most likely in both.

Thanks Dianeh and Christabel,

Yes the one thing that sticks out more than anything else is the shear unprofessionalism of the particular group of officers who were 'attending to' this case.

It is the same 'theme' covered on proud of the PJAmaral team.

The same theme used by vile and rottendoc.

The theme being one of reading and twisting everything to give a means to an end. An end they had already, in my opinion, deecided upon.