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Cath wrote:Before Grade became mrs Cipriano's lawyer, she's had someone else representing her in court. That lawyer lost the first case. Grade did the appeal(s).

But there's been something puzzling going on.
And it all sort of involves drugs.

I've read today a rumour (so it might be totally wrong) miss M. is a drug addict (class A whatever that is) too. Anybody else who's heard about that?

Are you sure you're not thinking of felicia cabriata, gonzo's lawyers wife? She is well known to be a junkie, and is the one gonzo supplied all his leaks to.

No I'm not thinking about Felicia.
The poster mentioned both her and Jo in his/her post.
Will post a link (if I don't forget that) tonight.

ETA link : http://tinyurl.com/yf7793z
Remember this is an anonymous poster, so he/she could be totally making things up.

First Lawyer's name there's a bit of a confusion about it.

"The same lawyer, Antonio Pragal Colaço, asked a witness for you enrolled,
the lawyer Célia Costa, the first to defend the case Leonor Cipriano
Joana, were the first to testify before the prosecution witnesses."
http://tinyurl.com/y9cker9

"João Novais Pacheco, Leonor’s lawyer, said the
defence’s objective had been to keep the indictment to one of ‘death by
aggravated assault’, punishable by a sentence of between one and five
years. This would have precluded a jury trial because juries only
preside over cases where ultimate jail terms are equal to or greater
than eight years."
http://www.algarveresident.com/story.asp?ID=8346

Grade did the appeal(s). Must check the dates of that.
Anybody around who knows when mrs Cipriano exactly got beaten (the date) and when she's filed her complaint?

Cath wrote:First Lawyer's name there's a bit of a confusion about it.

"The same lawyer, Antonio Pragal Colaço, asked a witness for you enrolled,
the lawyer Célia Costa, the first to defend the case Leonor Cipriano
Joana, were the first to testify before the prosecution witnesses."
http://tinyurl.com/y9cker9

"João Novais Pacheco, Leonor’s lawyer, said the
defence’s objective had been to keep the indictment to one of ‘death by
aggravated assault’, punishable by a sentence of between one and five
years. This would have precluded a jury trial because juries only
preside over cases where ultimate jail terms are equal to or greater
than eight years."
http://www.algarveresident.com/story.asp?ID=8346

Grade did the appeal(s). Must check the dates of that.
Anybody around who knows when mrs Cipriano exactly got beaten (the date) and when she's filed her complaint?

Aggravated Assault might have been a good idea, if it had actually happened, but it would have to have encompassed both Leonor and her brother, if in fact Joana had come across them fornicating. Which was never proved. So I don't know how it progressed to a charge of Murder. It can't have been both.

Leonor was beaten just prior to her supposed confession when her lawyer was not present. Certain Portuguese posters have said that she "fell down the stairs" after she had confessed, but the dates have always been obfuscated. It was only ever a matter of 24 hours. The fact that her lawyer was not present, and that the prison governor was on holiday are crucial points. Leonor's lawyer must have believed that she was guilty and have been completely unaware of the fact that she was beaten. I find this excedingly difficult to believe.

I hope that makes sense. It all makes perfect sense to me. Along with the fact that Leonor was taken from the prison to be interrogated at 6 o'clock in the morning and while the governor was away.

I presume that Leonor was in a state of shock and probably suffering from concusion. Not a state in which to complain. She was blind for almost a month.

Apart from Michael Cook, I have never heard of such a suspicious set of circumstances, but that doesn't mean that it hasn't happened many times before.

I am quietly almost incandescent with rage about the way in which this woman was treated. She must be freed, and I believe that she will be. Hopefully with loads of money in compensation.

I don't care what they do with Amaral.

Did you know about this?

http://goncaloamaraltruthofthelie.blogspot.com/

Should anyone else know about it, like Carter-Ruck or the lawyer here?

Good find Marie and yes Carter-Ruck should definitely be informed. What a bunch of fools these people are? Will they ever learn?

Maria my friend, Carter Ruck should be informed.

Pedro Silva wrote:Maria my friend, Carter Ruck should be informed.

Pedro, Carter Ruck have been informed.

In the phone call it is mentioned that the Amaral house is in Sofia's name. Is this the same house that was defaulted on back in 2003, or is it a different one? If it's a different one, where did the money come from to pay for it?.

Thank you Tinks.

Sabot wrote:In the phone call it is mentioned that the Amaral house is in Sofia's name. Is this the same house that was defaulted on back in 2003, or is it a different one? If it's a different one, where did the money come from to pay for it?.

Sofa mentioned in that infamous letter of her how they moved to another house (and how she had to do it all by herself as GA was screwing, messing with working)



"I will relate one last story, which still costs me to talk about. This
year, in May, we started the process of moving our family to Portimao. My
husband's holiday was supposed to start the day after your daughter
disappeared."

So it's another house.

Cath wrote:

Sabot wrote:In the phone call it is mentioned that the Amaral house is in Sofia's name. Is this the same house that was defaulted on back in 2003, or is it a different one? If it's a different one, where did the money come from to pay for it?.

Sofa mentioned in that infamous letter of her how they moved to another house (and how she had to do it all by herself as GA was screwing, messing with working)



"I will relate one last story, which still costs me to talk about. This
year, in May, we started the process of moving our family to Portimao. My
husband's holiday was supposed to start the day after your daughter
disappeared."

So it's another house.

But I thought that their original house had been reposessed for non payment of mortgage, which is why they had to move. Now I'm wondering if they bought another house in Sofia's name with the money from the book.

Sabot

They moved to Portimão BEFORE the book, so they got money from somwhere else or they may even rented a house there... I already threw away this filthy 24horas, but there was in there a seizure /arrest recorded in the Land Registry (so, either willingly by Sofia and Gonçalo Amaral) or by court order of a value of aprox. 190.000 euro in the name of a certain AS Amaral, too close to A Sousa Amaral to my taste). Now, if the taxman seizure was issued BEFORE the others, I believe they (the others) wouldn't be able of repossessing the house, I'm not sure about this, but I'm sure they (the Amarals) would not be able to sell the house without knowledge of the taxman and the taxes been collected.

However, whatever happened to that house, would be in the land registry, and there is NO change of owner, I believe. So, the house is still theirs OR the creditors haven't been able to sell it in order to recover the dbts to their satisfaction. Being 'their' house does not mean being 'their' home, however. They may have been evicted from the house in order to allow for it to be more easily sold.

maria wrote:Sabot

They moved to Portimão BEFORE the book, so they got money from somwhere else or they may even rented a house there... I already threw away this filthy 24horas, but there was in there a seizure /arrest recorded in the Land Registry (so, either willingly by Sofia and Gonçalo Amaral) or by court order of a value of aprox. 190.000 euro in the name of a certain AS Amaral, too close to A Sousa Amaral to my taste). Now, if the taxman seizure was issued BEFORE the others, I believe they (the others) wouldn't be able of repossessing the house, I'm not sure about this, but I'm sure they (the Amarals) would not be able to sell the house without knowledge of the taxman and the taxes been collected

However, whatever happened to that house, would be in the land registry, and there is NO change of owner, I believe. So, the house is still theirs OR the creditors haven't been able to sell it in order to recover the dbts to their satisfaction. Being 'their' house does not mean being 'their' home, however. They may have been evicted from the house in order to allow for it to be more easily sold.

Thanks, Maria.

I assumed that they had been evicted and then rented a house. So Ana's husband could have been talking about the same house. Or they could have bought another house after the book.

However, can you tell me if it is true that The McCanns had 28 days during which they could ask for the case to be reopened. Was this their right under Portuguese Law? I am sick and tired of this being used as a stick with which to beat The McCanns. They didn't ask so they didn't care. Not that there would have been any point since there was no new evidence.

Sabot

Several questions in one post:

1- They had 28 days to OPEN THE INSTRUCTION of the process in court. Don't even know what process, if the prosecution concluded that all evidences were not conclusive of anything, but even so, what would be the point of instructing a process in those circumstances? Against unknown people? THAT would close PJ investigation! THAT would kill the credibility of any further private investigation.

2 - The question of the houses. There is no way that we, members of the public, know what a given person owns. We can know the state of a given property, if we know its registration number, and that is easy to find. I could go into some theories here, but it is quite understandable that he moved houses when he had to go to Portimão to investigate Madeleine's diasappearance. The distance between Olhão and Portimão is 71 to 79km 1:01 to 1:31 hours drive, depending on the route taken (via michelin info). It could be a rented house there, given the fact that it would be a short (in comparison) time he was supposed to be there. It may even be that they bought yet another house in Sofia's name as, although the first one was in her name, it is him who has a debt record, and the banks do not ask for any records just proof of earnings and payement of last year's taxes. I don't even know if they go to the Bank of Portugal for financial references on people!!!

Thanks, Maria. That makes perfect sense.